[Driver] The Raikkonen Supremacy

[jsTrecu]

So, Autosport says RBR is considering Alonso for Webber's seat

Vettel to Ferrari with Daniel and Alonso/Kimi at RBR ? (just kidding)

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I think it's highly unlikely Kimi would 'wipe the floor' with Vettel... in fact there's a lot of evidence to suggest that Kimi would look very ordinary against the youngest ever triple WDC.

Off you go then - take the stand.........

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

So, Autosport says RBR is considering Alonso for Webber's seat

Vettel to Ferrari with Daniel and Alonso/Kimi at RBR ? (just kidding)

Alonso is everywhere.

[Marcus666]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

Think about what what you said. Kimi looking ordinary? If the car were to become a slower car or not the fastest then Kimi would 'wipe the floor' with Vettel. The only thing Vettel fans have to defend against Kimi fans saying he's better is that win at Monza 2008 with STR but again that car was becoming better than even the Renault. But I do agree with your last sentence. I would want Kimi to go to RBR for the number 1 seat not some number 2 seat with lots of money (which he already has).

I hate that ****ing example! Vettel was on pole with a dry setup from qualifying. What people forget is that Bourdais, Vettel's team-mate, was 4th on the grid! If he hadn't stalled on the grid, I bet STR would have got a 1-2!

[PepsiVodka]

Originally Posted by Marcus666

I hate that ****ing example! Vettel was on pole with a dry setup from qualifying. What people forget is that Bourdais, Vettel's team-mate, was 4th on the grid! If he hadn't stalled on the grid, I bet STR would have got a 1-2!

It's so annoying that Vettel fanboys use that example to defend the fact that his car is making him the 3 in a row WDC. I hate Vettel...

[F1Pete]

I believe Kimi is staying at Lotus too because he did say in an interview recently that people will think his move (whatever his move may be) is "stupid". So, I believe people would think it is stupid if he turned down RBR.

[Kempi]

I hate Vettel...

No one could tell.

I "hate" people who ignore that becoming a three time world champion might have to do with a little more than being in the good/best team. It is simply unrealistic to state that one such person would be wiped the floor with by one of the other Top4 active drivers. Noone between HAM, ALO, RAI, VET and probably ROS would wipe the floor with any of the other drivers.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

I hate Vettel...

... and like some of the others on here who have said the same, I'm guessing that doesn't colour your 'impartiality' on the matter either

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Off you go then - take the stand.........

o Race starts.
Vettel : 111 Raikkonen : 186

o World Championships.
Vettel : 3 Raikkonen : 1

o Race wins.
Vettel : 30 Raikkonen : 20

o Pole positions.
Vettel : 39 Raikkonen : 16

o Career points.
Vettel : 1,226 Raikkonen : 920

[Knowlesy]

Is that it?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

I hate Vettel...

We'd never have guessed

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

Think about what what you said. Kimi looking ordinary? If the car were to become a slower car or not the fastest then Kimi would 'wipe the floor' with Vettel. The only thing Vettel fans have to defend against Kimi fans saying he's better is that win at Monza 2008 with STR but again that car was becoming better than even the Renault. But I do agree with your last sentence. I would want Kimi to go to RBR for the number 1 seat not some number 2 seat with lots of money (which he already has).

STR better than a Renault?? that's a first..

I came late into F1, but can you please expand on your hypothesis here.

[Knowlesy]

The STR that year was developing into a fine car indeed. Basically a Red Bull with a superior engine.

Vettel's drive was of course superb, but it wasn't in a Minardi as people like to suggest. And the qualifying was the crucial thing. The top teams messed up and he only had to defend from an abject Kovalainen in wet conditions in the end.

It was one of the great drives still, but the hyperbole surrounding it is incredible.

[garcon]

I love how people either resort to "one defining race" or an abstract list of stats to try and "prove" how good or bad a driver is.

Does nobody actually watch the racing any more?

[PepsiVodka]

Originally Posted by FAS33

STR better than a Renault?? that's a first..

I came late into F1, but can you please expand on your hypothesis here.

The STR was a RBR engine with a customer chassis. Which obviously made it an awesome car. But of course in the wet Vettel got lucky due to bad Quailfying from teams like Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari. Also Hekki was bad in 2008 which made Vettel's win a lot easier.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

I hate Vettel...

How can you hate someone you don't know personally ?

I'm not his fan, and I kinda like Raikkonen for his driving style and attitude, and I don't exactly like RBR/Vettel supremacy... makes me remember TGF, but to hate is a whole different ball game.

For me, in F1 the best team/driver should win, and unfortunately most of the times is not like we would love to see. There are some things that should go away to make F1 better and better but I won't waste a single millisecond hating it. Take good care of your heart, you only have one and life's too short for hate.

[chillibowl]

i thought during the podium celebration when Brundle asked SV to elaborate on Kimi pushing him over SV gave a pretty soft answer.

basically he said Kimi just blew him off with a laugh. classic Kimi of course but i got the sense that SV is a bit in awe of Kimi in much the same way a young boy would be of his cooler older brother.

a little pop psychology for you all there but i genuinely feel like Kimi would very quickly find the upper hand. He did so at Mclaren against DC with almost zero experience, he did so at Ferrari against the favorite son Massa, and then they paid him like 30mil not to do it to Alonso.

he just has a personality that people gravitate towards regardless of what is written in the contract.

[PepsiVodka]

Originally Posted by Bononi

How can you hate someone you don't know personally ?

I'm not his fan, and I kinda like Raikkonen for his driving style and attitude, and I don't exactly like RBR/Vettel supremacy... makes me remember TGF, but to hate is a whole different ball game.

For me, in F1 the best team/driver should win, and unfortunately most of the times is not like we would love to see. There are some things that should go away to make F1 better and better but I won't waste a single millisecond hating it. Take good care of your heart, you only have one and life's too short for hate.

Even if you don't know someone personally you can still hate them. The problem with Vettel is he thinks he's above everyone which makes him a whiny, arrogant brat with a jerky personality. I totally agree with your next two paragraphs, you really know the truth about F1 and I really like people who can give a non biased opinion.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

Even if you don't know someone personally you can still hate them. The problem with Vettel is he thinks he's above everyone which makes him a whiny, arrogant brat with a jerky personality. I totally agree with your next two paragraphs, you really know the truth about F1 and I really like people who can give a non biased opinion.

Not wanting to go off topic and turning this into a moral debate but dislike would be more appropriate.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

The problem with Vettel is he thinks he's above everyone which makes him a whiny, arrogant brat with a jerky personality.

Is that what you really believe?

Watch how he deals with his team, and the reactions of those around him to him, and how he treats the journalists and others in the paddock.
Listen to Adrian Newey on the subject of "spoilt brat" drivers who think they are entitled to everything, and then waxing lyrical on how humble and hard working Vettel is - a real eye opener!

If there is one driver that this characterization does not fit, it is Vettel!

Irritating that he wins all the time, but the rest is just plain wrong!

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i thought during the podium celebration when Brundle asked SV to elaborate on Kimi pushing him over SV gave a pretty soft answer.

basically he said Kimi just blew him off with a laugh. classic Kimi of course but i got the sense that SV is a bit in awe of Kimi in much the same way a young boy would be of his cooler older brother.

a little pop psychology for you all there but i genuinely feel like Kimi would very quickly find the upper hand. He did so at Mclaren against DC with almost zero experience, he did so at Ferrari against the favorite son Massa, and then they paid him like 30mil not to do it to Alonso.

he just has a personality that people gravitate towards regardless of what is written in the contract.

I don't, I genuinely feel like Vettel would surprise everyone and beat Kimi. Kimi did well against Coulthard, remarkably well very quickly, but who's Coulthard? Just some guy who won a dozen races in the dominant car, but couldn't come close to winning a title, and got left behind by Mika.

He did well and truly beat Montoya as a teammate, which is a plus for him.

But he was extremely lucky to win his title in 2007, by just a point in front of both the Maccers... in fact the same team he'd failed to win a title with in 5 years of trying. Lewis really should have been champion that year with the lead he had going into the final 2 races. Kimi didn't win that title so much as Lewis lost it. Massa was just as fast as Kimi in 2007, maybe faster. He had a lot more poles and fastest laps, and did so in 2008 as well, and more wins that year. Massa left Kimi in his shadow that year, and then again in 2009 Kimi was in Massa's shadow until Massa had his accident.

I don't know what Massa's problem is these days, but today, Massa shouldn't even be in F1 with the way he's dominated by his teammate. How many years has it been since Massa genuinely beat Alonso? They could be the most one-sided driver pairing in the history of F1. Massa is useless now, so it doesn't say much for Kimi when he was barely able to outshine Massa for 3 years.

Then he took his break, came back, and actually Grosjean was looking better than Kimi for the first half of last year. He often outqualified him, and still does, he easily outqualified him at Hungary. But Kimi seems to have great consistency in the races. That Lotus is certainly reliable.

My point is, Kimi's been very consistent these past 2 seasons and he's one of the top 4 in F1, but I think he's 4th best. He's never really dominated a teammate, not like Vettel and Alonso have. So I really don't think he'll come into RB and beat Vettel. Just my opinion.

[GTRMagic]

So... who reckons that if Mr Raikonnen moves to RBR, that his car suffers the same reliability issues Mr Webber's has had?

And how would Mr Raikonnen handle it? Not well I suspect...

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The STR that year was developing into a fine car indeed. Basically a Red Bull with a superior engine.

Vettel's drive was of course superb, but it wasn't in a Minardi as people like to suggest. And the qualifying was the crucial thing. The top teams messed up and he only had to defend from an abject Kovalainen in wet conditions in the end.

It was one of the great drives still, but the hyperbole surrounding it is incredible.

Originally Posted by PepsiVodka

The STR was a RBR engine with a customer chassis. Which obviously made it an awesome car. But of course in the wet Vettel got lucky due to bad Quailfying from teams like Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari. Also Hekki was bad in 2008 which made Vettel's win a lot easier.

Interesting, when do you think Ricciardo and Vergne can get some of those fast bits from Renault again?

[Knowlesy]

STR were using Ferrari engines that year.

[jedrinck]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i thought during the podium celebration when Brundle asked SV to elaborate on Kimi pushing him over SV gave a pretty soft answer.

basically he said Kimi just blew him off with a laugh. classic Kimi of course but i got the sense that SV is a bit in awe of Kimi in much the same way a young boy would be of his cooler older brother.

Nah, he had just realized that Räikkönen's defense was nothing to complain about. He did complain in the heat of the moment via radio when he was frustrated about not getting past but by the podium ceremony he saw it differently already.