[BTCC] Support series rumour mill/news/everything thread 2011

[Moneyseeker]

http://www.motorstv.com/car/others/m...5-championship

"An incredible 117 cars have registered to compete in the Ma5da MX5 Championship, which begins its 2011 season at Silverstone this weekend, increasing its status the largest single-class racing series in UK motorsport."

Contrast this with Clio Cup where there were 11 cars testing at Rockingham yesterday (FRen is equally poor in numbers).

Bear in mind that they are racing the new MK3 MX5 (so not old cars) which you can buy for £12,500 and run on a budget of £7,500 (inc hospitality and TV coverage) it's no wonder there are so few cars out in Clio's with budgets of 10 x that.

Someone needs to get hold of the TOCA support series and bring the costs down, get the grids up and improve the support show. IMO.

[kipper]

The Mazda series with the 117 registrations is the series for the Mark I car so the cars are a bit older. In terms of the TOCA support classes, a positive is that 23 Porsches were testing at Snetterton in the week.

[Sodemo]

Its been getting worse for a season or two. Something should have been done in 2007. The costs involved are what killed off the Renault Spider Championship. They brought out the Clios in or around the year 2000 which were supposed to be a lot cheaper, and I think they were, but im not certain if the costs have increased, I guess they must have.

They just need to really slash the costs of support races. I can't emphasise how important that is to do.

[Speed-King]

They just need to really slash the costs of support races. I can't emphasise how important that is to do.

Alternatively, you can try to find a way to justify the costs.

I'm wondering if one of the problems is the spec-ness of the support series... I mean, spec-racing surely has its place, but competition between different makes is ultimately much more interesting and prestigious for spectators, drivers and also manufacturers... look at what kind of fields GT-racing series (in the UK and elsewhere) can come up with with a much worse or even non-existent TV-package.

A spec-series will (in most cases) always be considered a junior-series, i.e. not something someone aimes for or settles into, not something which has a value of its own and not something that is more than just a stepping stone into BTCC or F1. Consequently spec-series always have to rely on kids with rich parents, but after a few years of getting nowhere, people will soon get tired of pi**ing away hundereds of thousands of pounds/euros.

I think it's no surprise that the Porsche Carrera Cup is the best supported of the support series right now as it has the prestige to attract not just kids, but also gentleman drivers, who are usually in for the long run.

Not to mention that a multi-make series could also attract a modicum of manufacturer support...

If I was AG, I'd try to create a 2nd league to BTCC as part of the support package, probably running to super production rules and perhaps also an open GT-class, though that market place seems to be rather crowded in the UK right now, so I might have to cannibalize on other series to be successfull here.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Alternatively, you can try to find a way to justify the costs.

I'm wondering if one of the problems is the spec-ness of the support series... I mean, spec-racing surely has its place, but competition between different makes is ultimately much more interesting and prestigious for spectators, drivers and also manufacturers... look at what kind of fields GT-racing series (in the UK and elsewhere) can come up with with a much worse or even non-existent TV-package.

A spec-series will (in most cases) always be considered a junior-series, i.e. not something someone aimes for or settles into, not something which has a value of its own and not something that is more than just a stepping stone into BTCC or F1. Consequently spec-series always have to rely on kids with rich parents, but after a few years of getting nowhere, people will soon get tired of pi**ing away hundereds of thousands of pounds/euros.

I think it's no surprise that the Porsche Carrera Cup is the best supported of the support series right now as it has the prestige to attract not just kids, but also gentleman drivers, who are usually in for the long run.

Not to mention that a multi-make series could also attract a modicum of manufacturer support...

If I was AG, I'd try to create a 2nd league to BTCC as part of the support package, probably running to super production rules and perhaps also an open GT-class, though that market place seems to be rather crowded in the UK right now, so I might have to cannibalize on other series to be successfull here.

Yes, I agree. The Clios etc are there simply as a stepping stone to something else, something "bigger". However, if say the Clios had live TV coverage going out at 6pm on Sunday on BBC1 or ITV1, then I would imagine that A) sponsors would be falling over themselves to get involved, B) the costs would seem far more justifiable. Its all about balancing the costs of competing and what sponsor exposure you can offer. If it only costs £15K a year to compete, but you rake in 50K in sponsor money, then happy days! However I think thats unrealistic. Clios are a stepping stone, which is why the costs need to be driven right down. I also agree that the Porsche's are in effect the end of the ladder for a lot of drivers which makes sense.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I'm wondering if one of the problems is the spec-ness of the support series... I mean, spec-racing surely has its place, but competition between different makes is ultimately much more interesting and prestigious for spectators, drivers and also manufacturers... look at what kind of fields GT-racing series (in the UK and elsewhere) can come up with with a much worse or even non-existent TV-package

Certain one make championships are popular so their presence can't be ruled out entirely. I note your point regarding manufacturer interests, but all of the BTCC support races have support from their respective makers although clearly they do not seem to have much spectator interest at this point. Whilst GT races have generally achieved decent grids of late (although British GT have had some low points recently), their format may be difficult to fit into a BTCC race meeting given the demands of live TV.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

If I was AG, I'd try to create a 2nd league to BTCC as part of the support package, probably running to super production rules and perhaps also an open GT-class, though that market place seems to be rather crowded in the UK right now, so I might have to cannibalize on other series to be successfull here.

I think one of the reasons for the lack of entries is the shear amount of choice that prospective competitors currently have. As such, new series may not deliver larger grids. In terms of a 'second division' touring car championship, it already exists in the form of BARC's Production Touring Car Cup. 2011's opening races took place today at Silverstone, mustering a grid of nine cars.

[Sodemo]

I still lament the passing of the National Saloon Cup. Such a shame what happened with that and how the BTCC treated it after 2001/2002.

[kristof14]

The Clio's used to be a fantastic series to watch, their grid seemed dropped right down after the Abarth Cup appeared, half the grid seemed to jump across to that.

[Craner Curves]

The new Clios have never been that good in my opinion. The 2000-2006 generation produced some of the best racing I've ever seen.

[Sodemo]

The old Fiesta's and Clio's were amazing. Massive grids, loads of action, brilliant. Never really cared much for the single seater supports. Formula Ford is ok, but i'd get rid of FRenault. I would much rather have more tin-top supports, something like a "BMW 320 Saloon Cup" etc (if one existed).

[Craner Curves]

Formula Ford is the exception to the rule when it comes to junior single seaters in the UK - it's actually very entertaining. Look at the Donington races which supported the BTCC last year. I think if you could swap the VW Cup and F Ford from the F3-GT package with the Renault supports, then that'd be ideal.

[gregc]

From a post on the BTCC forums, it seems like we're currently expecting 16 cars in the Clios - not as many as I'd like, obviously, but not as bad as I'd feared.

Just hope people don't expect Nic Hamilton to perform miracles in his first ever season - he was interviewed on Radio 2 last week and seems a nice guy, and very level headed about what he's aiming to achieve.

[mikenunn-78]

a little rumour..... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...72S0T920110329

[adstubbs]

That should sell a few thousand more tickets this weekend

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Formula Ford is the exception to the rule when it comes to junior single seaters in the UK - it's actually very entertaining. Look at the Donington races which supported the BTCC last year. I think if you could swap the VW Cup and F Ford from the F3-GT package with the Renault supports, then that'd be ideal.

There was a rumour a while ago about the F3 teams wanting to go on to the BTCC package ...

[FIRE]

IIRC they signed a new deal with Stephane Ratel (British GT).

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by mikenunn-78

a little rumour..... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...72S0T920110329

Not doubting the legitimacy of the story, but how accurate are the quotes?

From Reuters: "It's cool. I will get to watch lots of movies on the plane."

From The Express: "It’s cool. I can sleep on the flight. I can still stay in this time zone."

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not doubting the legitimacy of the story, but how accurate are the quotes?

From Reuters: "It's cool. I will get to watch lots of movies on the plane."

From The Express: "It’s cool. I can sleep on the flight. I can still stay in this time zone."

Maybe after he spoke to Reuters he found out that it would be the same movies as when he flew to LA and Australia and decided to sleep instead of watching them again!

[mikenunn-78]

Originally Posted by sceptic

Maybe after he spoke to Reuters he found out that it would be the same movies as when he flew to LA and Australia and decided to sleep instead of watching them again!

[courageous]

Putting all the caustic humour & cynicism aside, good luck to Nicolas - he always looked passionate about races when F1 cameras picked him up and the positive message this gives to others with disabilities is heartwarming to even the biggest misanthrope

[stuart thompson]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The old Fiesta's and Clio's were amazing. Massive grids, loads of action, brilliant. Never really cared much for the single seater supports. Formula Ford is ok, but i'd get rid of FRenault. I would much rather have more tin-top supports, something like a "BMW 320 Saloon Cup" etc (if one existed).

You mean the production BMW cup for e30 318-320s fantastic series but not prestigious enough for Gow.