Schumacher set to go after 2004 - Page 2

Jukebox · 5 Mar 2003, 02:36 (Ref:525183)

Michael is an assett and an icon to Ferrari....they don't even have to spend a single dime on advertisements and marketing to sell the brandname Ferrari because of the titles brought by him. You won't sack an icon won't you unless he can't deliver anymore....i don see Michael ending his career with any other team than Ferrari

RWC · 5 Mar 2003, 02:45 (Ref:525189)

Teddy G does make a good point,as did alan for starting the thread.
HOWEVER
I too think ferrari won't p*ss it all away no matter how tired they get of raking in the championships!
Everyone remembers the pre shumacher era at ferrari-anything is preferable to that...

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 05:05 (Ref:525248)

Ferrari has been there for 50 years, and will, hopefully, be for another 50 years. MS, however, has at most a few more years at F1. Ferrari would not be so dumb as to allow their own decline due to the exit of an individual, having endured the barren period 1980-1999. They will PREPARE for such a day to come. MS, together with his troops has been at Ferrari for 7 seasons now, which is more than sufficient to improve the culture/efficiency/performance of a company. Ferrari has developed to a level where its success no longer depends on the presence/absence of any one single individual, and MS has HELPED Ferrari in this cause. So do Todt, Byrne and Brawn. They all want Ferrari as a team to succeed. I am sure MS will not want to see Ferrari's demise after his departure!

Why is MS paid so handsomely? Leaving aside his diriving ability/stamina and his ability of attracting sponsors--which are of course his strengths, most importantly it's because he would improve the technological state of the team (by bringing with his own personnel). This extra "added value" of MS is lost when the team can do its own car as well without him. Once the team reaches this level, MS should be prepared to take a pay-cut or pack up and leave.

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 06:45 (Ref:525291)

Teddy, Ferrari would scale back their F1 program? Are you serious? :confused:

Anyway, to suggest that Ferrari will start cutting the costs by 'showing the door to Schumacher' is, as I previously said, ridiculous.

Allen, your last post is absolutely correct! Except that you blew the general impression with your last paragraph... You see, he's paid this nice amount of cash for the reasons you mentioned. But you forgot another one, no less important: Frank or Ron or anyone else could use his stamina, ability, etc to improve THEIR cars! Something that I believe Ferrari are not exactly willing to allow...

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 07:08 (Ref:525299)

Yes, but since now THAT level is reached, the added value is lost and it's logical to see MS with either pay-cut or the door.

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 07:14 (Ref:525300)

Your assumptions are not logical. Think again. "That" level is never reached. You can always improve. And if Schumacher helps the others to reach "that" level, that would mean not only that Ferrari can improve, actually they "must".

Valve Bounce · 5 Mar 2003, 07:31 (Ref:525308)

Quote:

Originally posted by allen_overy
Yes, but since now THAT level is reached, the added value is lost and it's logical to see MS with either pay-cut or the door.

This is nonsensical logic. That's like saying Cheung Kong will fire Lee Kah Shing because he has brought the company to the top, so that there is little more to gain. Or Man U will fire David Beckham because he has brought the team to the top, and his values are now diminishing. And I don't think it likely Alex Ferguson will ask David Beckham to take a pay cut or the door. I think you've OD'd on diesel fumes along Bonham Road. :confused:

And for Teddy G as well as allen:
The whole point is, Ferrari are unlikely to let Michael Schumacher go to any other team, build up that team's capabilities and win the WDC for that team.

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 07:33 (Ref:525310)

THAT level refers to the operation level where the management considers the company can produce the same quality of goods and efficiency irrespective of the presence of THAT individual employee.
This apparently does not demand an absolute standard, nor is PERFECT level to be reached.

Valve Bounce · 5 Mar 2003, 07:37 (Ref:525313)

My previous post pre-supposes your post. I know know what they teach you these days

, but it sure lacks common sense.

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 07:40 (Ref:525315)

Quote:

Originally posted by allen_overy
THAT level refers to the operation level where the management considers the company can produce the same quality of goods and efficiency irrespective of the presence of THAT individual employee.

You see, when I said that you'll never be a manager at Ferrari I didn't mean you're not Italian. This is a business, you're right, but it's not a business like manufacturing plastic bags. It's also a sport. Their goal is NOT to solely maximize the performance/costs ratio.

Valve Bounce · 5 Mar 2003, 07:46 (Ref:525318)

Hey, don't you knock manufacturing plastic bags - that's very big in HK.

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 07:46 (Ref:525319)

A little bit of mis-anology: Li Ka Shing ONWED 30% of Cheung Kong, he is a shareholder, folk! MS is not a shareholder of Ferrari, nor did he make loans to it, so he is NOT a STAKEHOLDER. There is no comparison to MS-Ferrari. An even more important difference is that in this kind of family-controlled companies, the Board is actually composed of Li's own staff/partners, so there is virtually no question of him being laid off. Very different circumstance!
On Beckham, he is not taking the same high % of ManU's budget as MS on Ferrari, so comparatively, ManU will not be in such agony as Ferrari does!

AS to going to another team, note that teams like Williams and MClaren already had their systems in place: note MS took all his personnel from Benetton to Ferrari to set up his own team--why not use the existing ones at Ferrari? OK, assuming he wants Rory and Brawn to follow him to Williams/Mclaren, FW/Patrick or Ron dennis all had their proteges--will they easily replace Fisher and all others OR Newey/Coughlan whom they have trusted and developed over the years with people like Rory? Having enjoyed such a large amount of freedom at Ferrari, is Rory/Brawn willing to submit to Head/FW--somebody they treat as their equal in their days at Ferrari? Besides, from Rory/Brawn viewpoint, having been at the helm at Ferrari, why move with Schumacher?

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 07:48 (Ref:525321)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Hey, don't you knock manufacturing plastic bags - that's very big in HK.

Of course I don't!!

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 07:49 (Ref:525322)

To post 0737: Hope my post at 0746 answers your queries

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 07:50 (Ref:525323)

plastic bag manufacturing: that's 30-odd years ago!

Think 2004: think Disney

Jukebox · 5 Mar 2003, 07:55 (Ref:525325)

reality check.....Luca is in the board directors of FIAT. A bit far-fetched of a story... allen & Teddy....

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 07:55 (Ref:525326)

I give up.

Allen, read my lips: noone will ever show up the door to Schumacher. Neither will allow him to ever think of leaving to another team. Get it? When he will retire he will do it by his own will. And given the fact that he still happily and easily wins Championships, that future is not next year.

PS: You lost me at post 0747.. :confused:

Sato san · 5 Mar 2003, 07:57 (Ref:525328)

Michael is showing signs now that he is beginning to be pulled in by the others......Surley he is going to want to retire at the top , rather than start to get regularly beaten by the others......i dont think the end is that far away for him .

Jukebox · 5 Mar 2003, 08:02 (Ref:525334)

LOL

pay websites would do almost anything to sell hits

even tell fairy tales

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 08:35 (Ref:525357)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
Michael is showing signs now that he is beginning to be pulled in by the others......

He does? :confused:

Anyway, I agree with you. But that was not the point of the thread.

z2252314 · 5 Mar 2003, 08:36 (Ref:525358)

I too think the thought of Ferrari axing Michael is ludicrous for a couple of other reasons.

1) If Ferrari show Michael the door, there's a good chance
Rory and Ross (and perhaps even Todt) will hand in their resignation forms the next day. The majority of F1 fans have an extremely short memory, but Rory and Ross now exactly what the loss of Shumacher can do to a champion team (i.e 96). I doubt they would stay if Schumacher was to leave.

2) The new regulations will place a higher premium on driver skill. With the removal of all these driver aids (i.e traction control) the difference between the great drivers and good drivers will widen. Also, with costs projected to go down (no more need for all those electrical engineers!) there will be more money to spend on getting the best drivers.

My Prediction:- Ferrari will increase Michaels salary to a record 35m a year (its reported to be 25-30 US now) for another two years. Michael will accept and will once again edge out Tiger Woods for the highest earning sportsman in the world.

Sato san · 5 Mar 2003, 08:47 (Ref:525370)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Anyway, I agree with you. But that was not the point of the thread.

thats true ......im sure over nthe next couple or so years , were gonna see huge changes at Ferrari !....Budgets , team management , drivers , championships..........Domination in F1 always goes round in circles , each team has the top step for a few years ......I think it will soon be a different team

Red · 5 Mar 2003, 08:53 (Ref:525374)

Well, I don't see the same. By the way, I agreed with the rest of your post, not the one I've quoted... I mean yes, he will retire on top and won't do a "Damon Hill". But regularily winning 9-11 races per season is not a sign that he's been pulled by others...

Valve Bounce · 5 Mar 2003, 08:57 (Ref:525378)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
LOL pay websites would do almost anything to sell hits even tell fairy tales

Jukes, for once I agree with you 100%. I think this guy's posts are delusional. What more can I say?

allen_overy · 5 Mar 2003, 09:20 (Ref:525389)

MS is a clever guy and he will not do a "Damon Hill", yes. It is also to his best interests if he recognises the circumstances are not too favourable to him at 2004 and retires before he is shown "THE DOOR".

It is far too soon to draw the conclusion that "MS retires, Brawn/Byrne will also go". Go perhaps they may, but not to another F1 team. See post 0746. There is no top team who can accomodate them.

There is an equal opportunity for both pay sites and non pay sites to tell fairy tales. For non pay sites there is less incentive to investigate rumours clearly before drawing concrete conclusions. For pay sites, there is a greater incentive to do so since their viewership ALSO hinges on CREDIBILITY. Come on, mr. vb, if you have no/little experience in commercial practice, please say so.
The statement that pay sits would do almost anything to sell hits is far too general and inspecific. Submit concrete evidence for your statement, thank you very much.

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