[BTCC] rounds 13,14 & 15 croft

[AndyS]

Great event, thoroughly enjoyed it. I also followed Jordan through the Rallycross ranks and was really pleased to see him win. Also pleased for Sheddon, he either gets barged off or suffers rotten luck normally.

Bumping, barging and rubbing are all part of the BTCC, but it is a very thin line between when it's acceptable and when it's not. One or two drivers did seem to be just pushing people out of the way yesterday. Having said that I wouldn't want to see it go like F1 with the FIA constantly interfering and drivers getting upset when they get overtaken.

There is a certain gaggle of drivers in BTCC that do this on a regular basis. They are generally some of the more high profile front runners and are usually the first to moan when some body hits them. Pot kettle black springs to mind. If you can't take it boys don't dish it out.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Bumping, barging and rubbing are all part of the BTCC, but it is a very thin line between when it's acceptable and when it's not.

Like it's not acceptable in the Ginetta race staright after race 3....! The tap that caused the late-race accident and red flag (sorry, I can't recall who was involved) didn't look any worse than a lot of BTCC-style nudges, but was vilified on the commentary - maybe whoever makes the driving standards decisions should have a look at the state of the G50s and do some talking to the persistent nudgers before a similar accident happens to a couple of the BTCC cars.

That aside, it looked a good day's racing, and glad to see Andrew Jordan and Paul O'Neill back on the pace after Oulton miseries.

[Craner Curves]

I wonder of the CoC will have his annual lecture with the drivers ahead of the next meeting. There were a lot of broken cars out there yesterday.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I just feel a bit sorry for WSR. They obviously don't have a major sponsor, they haven't had a win yet, they have been punted out of quite a few races whilst in good positions, had quite a few repair bills and Neate doesn't appear to be able to have any real pace...

I think they could do with a win.

I dont know whether sorry is the right word for WSR, is it the team not delivering or the drivers?

Paul O'Neill continues to surprise and is a great addition to the championship.

[Alfa Fan]

The drivers! Absolutely the drivers. Put Colin back in that car at Snetterton and it would be back on the podium!

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Like it's not acceptable in the Ginetta race staright after race 3....! The tap that caused the late-race accident and red flag (sorry, I can't recall who was involved) didn't look any worse than a lot of BTCC-style nudges, but was vilified on the commentary - maybe whoever makes the driving standards decisions should have a look at the state of the G50s and do some talking to the persistent nudgers before a similar accident happens to a couple of the BTCC cars.

Yeah, that was a big one. I was on the banking opposite and even from a distance it looked a big impact. It's a very quick part of the circuit there.

[Jon411]

I think WSR have had some bad luck this year - and also Rob has been spun round quite a few times.

The car is faster than their championship positions suggest but with Andy still learning the car most the points are coming from Rob so every time he is turned round or they have a problem the team really suffers - much like when Stephen Jelley was in his first year and most the points came from Colin.

I know Airwaves are higher in the championship as they have a better finishing record and 2 front running drivers so far this year but I'd say WSR (with Rob) have generally been closer to the pace more often than Motorbase.

If they had Colin as well then no doubt they would be higher up the standings but I think when he hasn't had troubles Rob has done a decent job.

[Jon411]

Just noticed an updated news article on the WSR website, the reason for Rob Collard dropping out in race 3 was caused by a piece of debris hitting the master switch on the exterior of the car.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Paul O'Neill continues to surprise and is a great addition to the championship.

Indeed, although I felt he was getting a bit too dirty at times in some of his driving. He doesn't need to resort to that sort of stuff, he's better than that.

[awrb]

I thought that was a good weekend overall. I agree it was a bit rough at times though. I few thoughts though, did anyone else think that Sheddens move on Collard at the end of the first race was out of order? I know it was for the win, but Collard had a legitimate run on Shedden and he was just pushed off the track. And that wasn't the only example of this, it happened a few times during the races and I think it needs to stop, if someone got a run on you out of turn accept this, don't just run them off the track. Lloyd did a good job, possible the best guy in 888 since Gio, i hope he gets enough money to carry on in the car. And what happened to Motorbase, the cars just seem to be a step below WSR at the moment and they just don't seem able to string a decent weekend together. Looks like Collards move was an inspired choice.

[emicen]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Bumping, barging and rubbing are all part of the BTCC, but it is a very thin line between when it's acceptable and when it's not. One or two drivers did seem to be just pushing people out of the way yesterday. Having said that I wouldn't want to see it go like F1 with the FIA constantly interfering and drivers getting upset when they get overtaken.

There is a certain gaggle of drivers in BTCC that do this on a regular basis. They are generally some of the more high profile front runners and are usually the first to moan when some body hits them. Pot kettle black springs to mind. If you can't take it boys don't dish it out.

I agree. Plato, Neal and Collard need a proper reeming for their antics rather than the usual slaps on the wrists. They're by far the most persistent offenders and ultimately, as some of the most experienced drivers, those who should lead by example. Plato especially ****es me off with this, not because he's the worst for it out the trio, but because he spits the dummy so readily when someone remotely comes in to contact with him. [And I hope he still reads the forum after posting up at the end of last year thanking people for their support]

Tim Harvey also deserves a slap in this respect so he'll stop orgasming in the commentary box every time it happens. "classic Plato, little nudge to ease him wide and start the pass" etc. THATS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND SOMEONE YOUR AGE AND EXPERIENCE SHOULD BY NOW HAVE FOUND THAT LITTLE STATEMENT IN THE BLUE BOOK ABOUT MOTORSPORT BEING NON-CONTACT!

Its a recurring theme, but with grids dwindling as drivers can only afford 1/4 seasons this needs clamped down on. The damage budgets required are forcing people out the sport and it all filters down, look at the Clio Cup. Tiny entry compared to previous years and lets face it, if you didnt have to factor in the potential need to reshell it could be a lot cheaper.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by emicen

Tim Harvey also deserves a slap in this respect so he'll stop orgasming in the commentary box every time it happens. "classic Plato, little nudge to ease him wide and start the pass" etc. THATS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND SOMEONE YOUR AGE AND EXPERIENCE SHOULD BY NOW HAVE FOUND THAT LITTLE STATEMENT IN THE BLUE BOOK ABOUT MOTORSPORT BEING NON-CONTACT!

Remember how he won his only BTCC title though. A lot of people claim it was Steve Soper who won it for him, but it was Harvey's awful move on Will Hoy, pushing the Toyota off the track at the exit of Copse, that was the deciding factor. Hardly surprising he loves stuff like that.

From what I've been told, the only driver to be punished so far at Croft was Steven Kane for an incident in race 3. Presumably when he shoved Boardman out of the way.

I'm beginning to despair at the contact levels we've seen lately, it's just not motor racing, it's far too rough. But if the TV love it and the crash monkeys who attend, then what can you do about it?

[AndyS]

Difficult balance to strike, we don't want to see processions like F1 but sometimes it gets a bit much. I have to say you don't notice it as much at the events, mainly when you watch it back on TV. By all means give us some good close racing and a bit of aggression, but don't just push people out of the way as a means of passing.

[Alfa Fan]

Everyone knows that the BTCC is exempt from the no contact rule in the blue book, and its been that way for a couple of decades now.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

But if the TV love it and the crash monkeys who attend, then what can you do about it?

Problem is, not doing anything about it leads to 2 things. More crash monkeys tuning in/coming while less people wanting clean racing does the same. So it's a negative spiral when you just let things run as they do, since the "but the crowd loves it" argument feeds itself to get stronger.

[westfieldbend]

Had kept myself off this thread since Sunday, waiting for today when I have the time to watch all the croft races back to back and find that ITV has spoilers in the links to each race video! How annoying.

Thanks ITV...

[Icebaby]

Driving tactics have not changed in the BTCC from year to year, the drivers are not to blame more the rules allow them the freedom to behave like this. Only Andy Neate has felt the full force of the Clerk after he put Jordan in the wall at Oulton, if such punishments were given out like this it may well help take out some of unnecessary damage.

[redshoes]

I think Neate's punishment was more because of what happened after the initial impact. It's quite clear from the onboard footage that he made no attempt to back off or to stop Jordan's car from spinning further but just kept his foot in.

[dyewat808]

I watch the BTCC for close racing, but yes sometimes it gets a bit too rough. An interesting side-note: I'm in an online racing league (Raceconnect) and a strict no-punting rule is enforced. Some of the stuff that the BTCC drivers get away with would be annihliated over there.

I find myself slightly amazed by this. Surely you would think it would be the other way round?

Nevertheless, I admit I prefer the closeness of the BTCC to the processions of F1 - its just become part of the racing. Its often deliberate, yes, but malicious in its intent often no. Usually it is just slightly later on the brakes - a small nudge, to allow better speed out of the corner exit and a better racing line.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I think Neate's punishment was more because of what happened after the initial impact. It's quite clear from the onboard footage that he made no attempt to back off or to stop Jordan's car from spinning further but just kept his foot in.

Worse than that. If you look and listen to this he slammed on full throttle and full lock into Jordan and kept his foot in all the way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP_UbM6A00

[awrb]

Originally Posted by westfieldbend

Had kept myself off this thread since Sunday, waiting for today when I have the time to watch all the croft races back to back and find that ITV has spoilers in the links to each race video! How annoying.

Thanks ITV...

Yes, it's very annoying. They put the highlights show in itv player so I find thats a better way to watch it; no spoilers and they put it up faster.

[Madd_Dogg88]

The biggest disappointment of the weekend for me was Paul O'Neill. I usually love the guy, but that 'move' he pulled on TOC at the hairpin in race 2 was appalling! And the justification - 'you should know when you're beaten and let the quicker guy through'. Well, no Paul, that would kind of defeat the point of racing. As if he's never been in front of a group of faster cars and not fought them off.

And then he was full of the antics again in race 3!!

I'm all for hard racing, and a bit of rubbing, but it's getting to the point where the 'fan favourites' are allowed to drive off the track to pass or just push people out of the way and all is forgiven because they're Plato, or Neal, Collard or O'Neill and everyone loves them.

Ridiculous!

Rant done! Ha ha.

[trebor901]

Originally Posted by Madd_Dogg88

The biggest disappointment of the weekend for me was Paul O'Neill. I usually love the guy, but that 'move' he pulled on TOC at the hairpin in race 2 was appalling! And the justification - 'you should know when you're beaten and let the quicker guy through'. Well, no Paul, that would kind of defeat the point of racing. As if he's never been in front of a group of faster cars and not fought them off.

And then he was full of the antics again in race 3!!

I'm all for hard racing, and a bit of rubbing, but it's getting to the point where the 'fan favourites' are allowed to drive off the track to pass or just push people out of the way and all is forgiven because they're Plato, or Neal, Collard or O'Neill and everyone loves them.

Ridiculous!

Rant done! Ha ha.

Oh well it was only the AON Focus, im pretty sure a lot more fans like Paul O'neill than favour the stupid turbo LPG engine of the Focus

[Craner Curves]

That makes it all ok then. Phew, thank goodness for that!

Perhaps the TOCA disciplinary men should use a clap-o-meter to decide who was in the wrong in their investigations.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

That makes it all ok then. Phew, thank goodness for that!

Perhaps the TOCA disciplinary men should use a clap-o-meter to decide who was in the wrong in their investigations.

Thanks, you made my day.