[Tech Issue] 2011 Pirelli tyres

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Ban tyre changes, mandate the use of all-weather tyres and get rid of all other tyre regulations.

I'm with you on this from a 'relevance' POV, because at no point in any of the journeys on public roads that I ever did, was it necessary to stop the car and put 'wet' tyres on when it started to rain.

But:

All you have to do then is sell 'treaded' tyres to 'F1' fans.

Remember how much dry tyres with just grooves in them got slagged off?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Wasn't Pirelli tasked to create a more "interesting" tyre by F1 when they were awarded the contract? This is not a decision they are making on their own, so it is not a question of what Pirelli can or can't do, but what they have been contracted to do.

I guess that was the plan...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Wasn't Pirelli tasked to create a more "interesting" tyre by F1 when they were awarded the contract? This is not a decision they are making on their own, so it is not a question of what Pirelli can or can't do, but what they have been contracted to do.

How this fits in with greener and more sustainable racing with smaller more economical engines is a complete mystery.
Consistency of message?

[Marbot]

One set of dry, intermediate and full wet tyres to last all season?

[Sodemo]

They should just give the teams a hard, medium and soft tyre option for the race.

The hard should be able to do the race without stopping, but be slow.

The medium should be able to do the race, but have wear issues towards the end.

The soft should be very quick (2 seconds faster?), but need to be changed mid-race.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'm with you on this from a 'relevance' POV, because at no point in any of the journeys on public roads that I ever did, was it necessary to stop the car and put 'wet' tyres on when it started to rain.

But:

All you have to do then is sell 'treaded' tyres to 'F1' fans.

Remember how much dry tyres with just grooves in them got slagged off?

Things should be put in perspective. With the then-current downforce levels it was far from sensible to make the cars being 'under-tyred'. One proposed a formula of high mechanical grip and low downforce. But I think we should go to a low grip, low weight and high power formula.

[Marbot]

Pirelli on course for 'two-stop' GP's.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88963

Me likey! Lot's more different strategies should now be available to 'some' drivers.

Pirelli also want to do some race weekend testing.

[dyewat808]

That would be nice.

But like someone already said, the whole thing doesn't tie in very well with the whole "green" agenda thing.

Still, tyres that allow for a few more different strategies would be nice.

[Pingguest]

Two pit stops per race? Why on earth did Formula 1 ever decide to ban refuelling then? With this kind of artificial racing we effectively end up with the situation from before the refuelling ban.

[Marbot]

I think that it was widely acknowledged that Bridgestones 2010 season tyres were a bit...'wooden'. Probably even more 'wooden' than the 2005 season tyres were! A concept which would have worked better if there had been no refuelling.

I can see why some argue that if engines are to go 'green', then surely things like tyres should follow. So maybe, 5 or 6 sets of hard, soft, intermediate and wet weather tyres per.....season?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Two pit stops per race? Why on earth did Formula 1 ever decide to ban refuelling then? With this kind of artificial racing we effectively end up with the situation from before the refuelling ban.

Not quite. You always knew that a driver during the refuelling era had to make another stop. The cars had smaller fuel tanks, and other teams would time opponents stops. So everyone knew what everyone was doing.

Without refuelling you will never know if a driver is going to have to make that second stop.

Keeps'em all guessing, and you can throw in a little bit of disinformation at the same time.

[Marbot]

Here's one scenario.

RS: "Felipe! You can't stay out on those tyres you will have to make another stop".

FM: "But my tyres are fine!?"

RS: "Fernando-is-faster-than-you!"

FM: "Yes, but he's half of a lap behind me on his third set of tyres, and I don't want to stop twice!"

It could happen.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Two pit stops per race? Why on earth did Formula 1 ever decide to ban refuelling then? With this kind of artificial racing we effectively end up with the situation from before the refuelling ban.

Indeed. This would only be of benefit if they dropped the "must stop" rule.

Lets hope the FIA doesn't FORCE drivers to stop twice. Forcing them to stop once is bad enough. Lets hope at some tracks the tyres last a bit longer and *some* drivers risk just stopping once...

[Peat]

Wet/Night testing in Abu Dhabi.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Not quite. You always knew that a driver during the refuelling era had to make another stop. The cars had smaller fuel tanks, and other teams would time opponents stops. So everyone knew what everyone was doing.

Without refuelling you will never know if a driver is going to have to make that second stop.

Keeps'em all guessing, and you can throw in a little bit of disinformation at the same time.

With tyres fading away and making drivers to lose an awful lot of time, we will know drivers will do two pit stops.

What's wrong with races without pit stops any way? Why don't they want drivers to pass each other on-track?

[TF110]

Because they don't. Unless your name is Hamilton or Kobayashi that is. Passing is hard in F1. At least today it is. F1 should be super high grip, low life tires. F-the green movement, they can recycle and reuse the rubber anyway. They'll go for the low life high grip tires that F1, in my opinion, needs! Sure the hard tires will last a little longer, but still provide some good grip. F1 needs aero and mechanical grip, not just one of the two. It's the pinnacle of motorsports, so the technology, the tires, the equipment, the show, the tracks etc. should be the best. Who cares if they have to make stops, that's in almost every form of racing. Tire changes happen, they need to happen. It was stupid for them to ban tire changes in recent memory, and that didn't last long did it? I'm sure the Toyota they're using is a good basis for their development, so I hope to see a good tire.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I like all of this.

If we can't make all surfaces like Montreal, the next best thing we can do is 'weather' the tyres a little quicker. Yes, yes, that may seem 'artificial', but at the end of the day, F1's never seen so much technology, technology that includes the most sophisticated simulators we've ever seen, aero like never before, and tyres that could probably last a few races.

If we've ever needed an interjection, it'd probably be now. I think it's a smart move. You can't undo technology, we need to embrace perhaps the control we have over the technology and find ways to make it work for F1 without everything being far too effecient.

Selby

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by TF110

Because they don't. Unless your name is Hamilton or Kobayashi that is. Passing is hard in F1. At least today it is. F1 should be super high grip, low life tires. F-the green movement, they can recycle and reuse the rubber anyway. They'll go for the low life high grip tires that F1, in my opinion, needs! Sure the hard tires will last a little longer, but still provide some good grip. F1 needs aero and mechanical grip, not just one of the two. It's the pinnacle of motorsports, so the technology, the tires, the equipment, the show, the tracks etc. should be the best. Who cares if they have to make stops, that's in almost every form of racing. Tire changes happen, they need to happen. It was stupid for them to ban tire changes in recent memory, and that didn't last long did it? I'm sure the Toyota they're using is a good basis for their development, so I hope to see a good tire.

Indeed overtaking is very difficult in today's Formula 1. But instead of adding pit stop strategy, wouldn't it be much better to resolve the lack of close racing instead?

[ECW Dan Selby]

I think that's what the adjustable rear wing is trying to solve. And I think to a certain degree, it will.

It's debatable as to whether that's the "right" way of dealing with it, but I think it's a good temp solution until 2013.

Selby

--

And again, I think it's the idea of embracing technology and using our technological advancements to our advantage. Alot of people compare the idea to 'Mario' or the 'computer game generation' - to a certain degree, I guess that's something that F1 needs to do, as it is meant to be at the forefront of automotive technological advancements. The idea of an adjustable rear wing that could be activated within 1 second of the car infront would seem almost space-age back in the day.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

With tyres fading away and making drivers to lose an awful lot of time, we will know drivers will do two pit stops.

I'm not so sure. I would say that some drivers would go the distance on just two sets of tyres. The choice is theirs to make.

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What's wrong with races without pit stops any way? Why don't they want drivers to pass each other on-track?

I couldn't agree more, but apparently the 'fans' like pit stops.

[Wims]

Even if they outlawed pitstops it would still be impossible to overtake on the track. Its not like the drivers dont bother, they are highly competetive sportsmen

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Wims

Even if they outlawed pitstops it would still be impossible to overtake on the track. Its not like the drivers dont bother, they are highly competetive sportsmen

I wouldn't say that it was "impossible" to overtake on the track! And the drivers now have KERS and moveable rear wings too!

There should be no reason for a faster driver/car combination to be held up by a slower driver/car combination during the 2011 season, regardless of how many stops for tyres they make.

It could also be that for this season it may not be such a good idea to qualify on pole or to be leading a GP into the first corner, such will be the advantage that following the car in front is said to have.

[RF_Racer]

According to a report in Autosport today, the Pirelli front tyres have been beefed up to give more front end. Should be good news for Schumacher and Massa

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

According to a report in Autosport today, the Pirelli front tyres have been beefed up to give more front end. Should be good news for Schumacher and Massa

I would also add Button to that list, but not because it's just the front tyre that's been "beefed up".

Article here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88985

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Wims

Even if they outlawed pitstops it would still be impossible to overtake on the track. Its not like the drivers dont bother, they are highly competetive sportsmen

Formula 1 drivers have always been highly competitive. But in the past overtaking was possible, simply because of the performance differentiators being bigger. Without standardization and pit stops this would all return.