Official Pat Symonds joins Williams as CT - Page 2

Sodemo · 19 Jul 2013, 10:42 (Ref:3279344)

There is another sport where frequently disgraced "professionals" are welcomed back; football. Where else would a man convicted of battering women or sexual assault find work?

Only in football.

**Bononi** · 19 Jul 2013, 13:20 (Ref:3279378)

What can we say ? Are we above all these moral standards ? If he payed for his actions can he have another chance ? A proven professional with years of experience and well known in the circus, certainly the men in the power at Williams knows what they're doing. We surely can see the difference between him and the mastermind behind the cheat, and that says a lot. To be honest, I've seen so many worse things happening in politics that nothing impresses me anymore.

littleman · 19 Jul 2013, 13:50 (Ref:3279385)

Welcome back, you're exactly the sort of character we need in Motorsport.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/1...leaked-online/

Never mind that proper people like Prof.Sid Watkins & others have dedicated their lives to Motorsport Safety.Never mind the Hans device, cockpit surrounds, crash testing etc,etc,etc. Never mind what happened to Massa.

Never mind that marshall's and spectators have been killed by flying debris - just go and stick it in a concrete wall my son - oh, and be careful.

**Bononi** · 19 Jul 2013, 14:00 (Ref:3279387)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him or his actions, I'm just saying that it's something beyond our view of what is wrong or right, or is it ethic or is it fair. From my business position, I wouldn't hire such people, but that's not how things happen in other places.
In all situations, above anything, I don't judge anyone, being right or wrong, it's not my way. Maybe you can, judge him or judge me, you certainly can live with that. I respect your opinion and that's what counts here.

Marbot · 19 Jul 2013, 14:44 (Ref:3279393)

Everyone deserves a second chance, IMO.

I think that there are definitely some other characters in F1 who I would not trust as far as I could throw them, and they have not ever been banned for anything because they are much better at not getting caught.

Paradise City · 19 Jul 2013, 14:52 (Ref:3279394)

He got his reputation bashed but he wasn't punished much. Neither was Briatore. Symonds has charmed his way back in, in a way that Briatore the sleazy lout probably couldn't. Look, maybe PS is all remorseful in his own mind and if so best of luck to him but his comeback really underlines the fact morality doesn't count in contemporary F1 and the governance of F1 is pretty lax. Well we all knew that of course.

littleman · 19 Jul 2013, 15:35 (Ref:3279409)

A second chance in a non critical environment, maybe.

In something like Motorsport, Aerospace, the Medical Profession etc - No Way!

VIVA GT · 19 Jul 2013, 15:42 (Ref:3279414)

While I'm not defending what happened I would have thought that someone with the ability & judgement to race a Formula One car would also have the ability to put his car into the barriers with small enough impact to ensure that neither he, a marshal, or a spectator fifteen rows back in the grandstand isn't killed in the process. Such accusations are, in my humble opinion, misguided.

Dave M · 19 Jul 2013, 16:41 (Ref:3279419)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Everyone deserves a second chance, IMO.

I think that there are definitely some other characters in F1 who I would not trust as far as I could throw them, and they have not ever been banned for anything because they are much better at not getting caught.

Well put Marbot! Absolutely true.

Sodemo · 19 Jul 2013, 17:08 (Ref:3279428)

I always thought that spin looked funny, the way he just spun and kept his gas on the throttle until the impact.

Moneyseeker · 19 Jul 2013, 17:17 (Ref:3279432)

As a CEO once said ' the problem with a revolving door is that it slaps you in the face when you arrive and the backside when you leave...'

I have great respect for PS who has had a great career in F1 sadly tarnished by one act of stupidity, he has also been a great support of aspiring and student engineers too.

They need a 'big beast' of an engineer to drive the team forward and someone who has been around long enough to know his own direction, which is something Williams badly needs. Let's hope they let him do his job.

Paradise City · 19 Jul 2013, 17:57 (Ref:3279446)

I thought it was a very dangerous type of corruption he was complicit in.The spy-stuff is fairly innocent in comparison.

Tourer · 19 Jul 2013, 23:54 (Ref:3279538)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

While I'm not defending what happened I would have thought that someone with the ability & judgement to race a Formula One car would also have the ability to put his car into the barriers with small enough impact to ensure that neither he, a marshal, or a spectator fifteen rows back in the grandstand isn't killed in the process. Such accusations are, in my humble opinion, misguided.

Agree completely - not condoning what happened but some hysteria creeping into some posts on the subject.

I'd even suggest that deliberately crashing into other cars could be a greater risk to marshals, spectators and yet no-one appears to be shrieking for the heads of the perpetrators.

Back on topic - PS has a long and (mostly) distinguished F1 record over three decades. He did something extremely stupid, admitted his role, was punished, did his time and has been back in F1 for some time now.

All that is happening now is that he is changing teams (good move for all concerned in my view) - quite why we have claims that he shouldn't be allowed to work in F1 now, when he HAS been back in F1 for a while is a bit of a mystery.

Paradise City · 20 Jul 2013, 00:46 (Ref:3279548)

He didn't get any punishment really bar slap on the wrist stuff. It was a dangerous act of corruption. A good track record is grounds for mitigation not absolution.

People are giving him a 'free pass' because he has an affable manner.

wnut · 20 Jul 2013, 01:38 (Ref:3279555)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He didn't get any punishment really bar slap on the wrist stuff. It was a dangerous act of corruption. A good track record is grounds for mitigation not absolution.

People are giving him a 'free pass' because he has an affable manner.

I don't in any way condone Symonds actions, but:

What do you call the penalties handed out for deliberate accidents to:

Prost, Senna, Coulthard, Schumacher, and numerous others.

The final responsibility for this whole mess was Piquet Jnr. whose ultimate role is still open to question.

Make stupid safety car rules and this is the type of practice you will find in a high pressure environment.

Tourer · 20 Jul 2013, 02:05 (Ref:3279560)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He didn't get any punishment really bar slap on the wrist stuff. It was a dangerous act of corruption. A good track record is grounds for mitigation not absolution.

People are giving him a 'free pass' because he has an affable manner.

Sorry mate - can't agree. Loss of income is more than a slap on the wrist but his good track record probably did help in reducing the length of his ban.

I'm not in any way suggesting that he deserved a 'free pass' - he didn't get one, nor did he deserve it. He has however (literally) done his time, is contrite & penitent, has been back in the game and on balance, has a lot to offer the right team.

littleman · 20 Jul 2013, 08:33 (Ref:3279609)

Very senior position's within an organization demand more than just job competency - that's a given.

The character of the individual is just, or even more important.They must have leadership skills,set standards, protect and preserve the integrity of the business,provide moral and ethical guidance. In short, they should set the tone and ethos of the company - something which employees and commercial partners value.

For all these reasons, I believe PS comes up short.

Teretonga · 20 Jul 2013, 09:56 (Ref:3279632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He didn't get any punishment really bar slap on the wrist stuff. It was a dangerous act of corruption. A good track record is grounds for mitigation not absolution.

People are giving him a 'free pass' because he has an affable manner.

Whether we agree or disagree with the way the 'authorities' have dealt with the matter we have to accept that the people who offended have been through due process however inadequate or otherwise it may be.

Its over and unless further evidence comes to light and it gets reignited then it will remain that way.

If we have a beef against the 'authorities' because we don't agree with what has occurred in the process that is no reason to hold offence against the person who committed the deed. Its the 'judges' who need the rebuke, not the offender. PS has been through the system and obeyed the commitments he was asked to make by various people. He should be allowed to get on with his life without having to re-live the offence all over again.

Paradise City · 20 Jul 2013, 14:29 (Ref:3279689)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Sorry mate - can't agree. Loss of income is more than a slap on the wrist but his good track record probably did help in reducing the length of his ban.

I'm not in any way suggesting that he deserved a 'free pass' - he didn't get one, nor did he deserve it. He has however (literally) done his time, is contrite & penitent, has been back in the game and on balance, has a lot to offer the right team.

Loss of income was a minor inconvenience and he still secured sturdy employment. His criminal conspiracy put lives at risk; that's an extremely serious offence.

We can't know the difference between whether he is contrite over the act, whether he was contrite over getting caught or whether he's just saying he's contrite.

This isn't a pleasant conversation for me, but I got to say it how it is.

Paradise City · 20 Jul 2013, 14:33 (Ref:3279691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I don't in any way condone Symonds actions, but:

What do you call the penalties handed out for deliberate accidents to:

Prost, Senna, Coulthard, Schumacher, and numerous others.

The final responsibility for this whole mess was Piquet Jnr. whose ultimate role is still open to question.

Make stupid safety car rules and this is the type of practice you will find in a high pressure environment.

Senna could be a villain who got off very, very lightly.
But what Symonds was involved in was very premeditated, it was dangerous, he personally stayed safe and he stayed schtum only until Piquet let the cat out of the bag! We'd be none the wiser otherwise. That's poor form, to say the least!

Paradise City · 20 Jul 2013, 14:38 (Ref:3279693)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Whether we agree or disagree with the way the 'authorities' have dealt with the matter we have to accept that the people who offended have been through due process however inadequate or otherwise it may be.

Its over and unless further evidence comes to light and it gets reignited then it will remain that way.

If we have a beef against the 'authorities' because we don't agree with what has occurred in the process that is no reason to hold offence against the person who committed the deed. Its the 'judges' who need the rebuke, not the offender. PS has been through the system and obeyed the commitments he was asked to make by various people. He should be allowed to get on with his life without having to re-live the offence all over again.

I never respect injustice, such is life that one has to resign oneself to injustice but respect it, nope. It's a given that I can't do anything about it and I won't belabour that point unless the matter of his integrity is directly brought up but injustice isn't anything else but injustice and with Symonds, he got off with a nominal sentence for a serious offence.

Tourer · 20 Jul 2013, 15:59 (Ref:3279718)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Loss of income was a minor inconvenience and he still secured sturdy employment. His criminal conspiracy put lives at risk; that's an extremely serious offence.

We can't know the difference between whether he is contrite over the act, whether he was contrite over getting caught or whether he's just saying he's contrite.

This isn't a pleasant conversation for me, but I got to say it how it is.

He secured sturdy employment once he'd done his time - he gets a clean(ish) slate. The charges weren't criminal, they were sporting rules broken.

If he HAD been convicted of a criminal offence in the criminal system, it's a core tenet of the UK criminal system that once the sentence has been served, the slate is clean & in my view, that is what PS deserves and is getting from the teams who have chosen to employ him.

Will agree to disagree with you, no harm, no foul in that regard but I will say that in regard to your last point, you're not saying it how it is, you're saying it how your opinion is - two very different things.

**Adam43** · 20 Jul 2013, 18:04 (Ref:3279753)

I too don't have problem with him coming back. His punishment was apt and proportional. Overall he seems like a sound character. I don't see any benefit to continue to bad mouth him now. The world moves on.

Paradise City · 20 Jul 2013, 18:05 (Ref:3279754)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

He secured sturdy employment once he'd done his time - he gets a clean(ish) slate. The charges weren't criminal, they were sporting rules broken.

If he HAD been convicted of a criminal offence in the criminal system, it's a core tenet of the UK criminal system that once the sentence has been served, the slate is clean & in my view, that is what PS deserves and is getting from the teams who have chosen to employ him.

Will agree to disagree with you, no harm, no foul in that regard but I will say that in regard to your last point, you're not saying it how it is, you're saying it how your opinion is - two very different things.

I'm conveying the facts, I myself am not bringing anything new to the table of my own invention insofar as I am aware. If others have facts, that I'm not informed about, do step forward.

PS committed a dangerous and premeditated act of corruption, sought to conceal that, only put his hands up when he got caught and secured sturdy employment in F1 during the course of his ban. All true.

That he basically 'served time' on a nominal sentence is all very true but it doesn't impact on any of the remarks I have made which are also true. It doesn't make his grave act of corruption, any less grave because the governance of F1 is full of gaps...etc.

JeremySmith · 20 Jul 2013, 19:07 (Ref:3279774)

You just don't like Pat Symonds do you..

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