Coupes from 2010

[Erki]

I just hope manufacturers like Lola or Courage could be competitive too and there would be privateer entries as well. Audi vs Pug vs Toyota(?) would be great but I'd love to see teams like Pesca or RfH or Chamberlain out thee as well. Nothing against closed tops, I've always liked variety.

[broadrun96]

Second quick thought though, arent the LMP2 chassis pretty much upgradable to LMP1 spec with a new engine? Wouldn't that limit some the introduction of new small teams to try out the smaller before moving up. And what now of Acura's plan to poach the best ideas from courage and (cant remember the other make) to build their LMP1 car, obviously those ideas won't carry over anymore if they build a car for more then 2 seasons. Or do we think they could do an open car and then a closed top cover for the same chassis? Sorry for the multiple posts but finally time of for Le Mans so tuned to Radio Le Mans almost nonstop now and reading all the news I can catch, feel WAY behind though not havin Motorstv here so no tv coverage til sat mornin at 930 am US eastern

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by JAG

But by 2010 the current cars would be down to 3.20 at Le Mans, if left unchanged from 2006 spec.

As the years go by, wings will become smaller, but the teams will gain back the downforce with development.

10-15 years down the line cars may have no more than a gurney type device, yet still be as quick as a current car.

ACO says they want to keep 3:30 as reference time for LMP1.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

i morely meant cynical in the good way than the bad way, i cant wait till these rules come in because i think the cars will be quicker in astraight line overall and also you are right, there will be a more clear distinction between LMP1 and LMP2, i wont like the fact that some of the smaller good teams like pescarolo would be snuffed out as well as creation but these teams could maybe buy a car from a big manufacturer which would be great news and also i think in a few years barazi epsilon in LMP2 could very well be in LMP1 after their fantastic pace and reliability in the LMP2 category i love those guys lol

Theres no reason why Creation, Pescarolo etc. could not build a coupe.

The basic chassis and engine regs will remain the same.

If your talking about there chances for overall victory, well hasn't that always been the case with increased competition?

The plus point is, if you have more manufactuers, the series/race becomes more prestigous, and a podium, even top 6 placing is on par with a victory (well not quite) in the lean, privateer only years.

[ger80]

Why not only incrase refueling time for all cars and a little more restrictor for closed LMP1 cars? Additional maybe a limit for center of gravity (makes cars cheaper for everybody)

[JAG]

Does Sam or Mike have anymore info on the rear wing size? If determined by windscreen size, it would be smaller than the MC12, they'd look almost like 30's streamliners, lol

Interesting to note the picture below shows a glass cover over the engine, presumably to make it more 'roadcar' like.

http://www.endurance-info.com/articl...&mode=&order=0

[PatrickB]

First off, LOVE this news. Its about freakin time the brought back the coupe's.

Does seem with the smaller wing and rear window to be a bit of a knock off of the Crawford...

[JAG]

Edit, just noticed, welcome to 10-10ths PatrickB


And of course the DP's wouldn't look too bad if they had longer wheelbases and sleeker lines..............but they haven't

This is what I can make out from the translation of the ACO press conference:-

-Current chassis can be converted to the 2010 coupe regs

-Windscreens will be wider than current cars, meaning Peugeot and Epsilon will both have to change for 2010

-Rear wing will be smaller, and the same dimensions as the windscreen

-Front openings and 'single seater' (R10 single seater nose) styling cues will be banned with cars returning to a tradiontional protoype shape (2001/2002 Bentley?)

-Possible increase in ride height

-Styling from the manufactuers roadcars must(?) be incorporated

Basically think of a Maserati MC12 on steroids, with a nose/tail similar to a 2001 Bentley.

The ACO also seem to be pushing this class as a no holds barred tech race (I assume with regards to alternative fules/green technology), so it will be interesting to see what comes about.

[Mosport Fan]

Hello All, I've watching this forum long enough now, it's time to sign up!

With the new ACO regs, I wonder if "Uncle Don" (Panoz) would be willing to up the ante with a front engined car, just like the GTR-1 days. Unfortunately the cars at that time simply had more money put behind them from the FIA-GT teams like Porsche, Benz and McLaren. Panoz had the technology to do it then, why not again?

[JAG]

Front engined P1 coupe?

Wider windscreen, a ban for the 'F1' noses etc.

Would it be possible?

Panoz GTR MkII sounds good.

[Supercar]

Originally Posted by prototype

As a fan I really like the way the coupes look. But it concerns me that the ACO constantly change the rules. I think this really discourages development of new cars because manufacturers don't want to spend R&D money on a car that is ruled obsolete in 2 or 3 years.

This could really hurt the number of manufacturers entering into the sport. I want sportscar to return to multiple factory efforts competing, and I am not sure this is the way to do that.

Just my 2 cents.

That was my first thought too. I'd rather see cars being eligible to race for as longs as they are competitive - up to 5 or more years, and not being made obsolete by some shifting and arbitrary regulations. If someone still wants to run an open top in LMP1, I'd say let 'em.

A "cynical way to attract OEM's"? You bet it is! ACO would not annonce this if they hadn't checked with all the current and potential future competitors, that are knocking at the door.

Talking about doors... Expect to see several new OEM's in 2010+ with cool looking cars and unbelievanle aerodynamics, and doors. Hopefully not those MC-12 types, those were not pretty, even for a GT. Maybe more like McLaren F1 or similar. Are we going back to the Steve McQueen era?

Now the problem will become that there will be too many GT-looking cars on the fields. How will you then be able to tell between them?

[Speedworx]

Its about time the ugly open cars were got rid of and we have proper sportscars back.

Would be fun to see DP's at Daytona. Come on ACO

[isynge]

The bit that perturbs me is this (from DSC's coverage of the press conference)

“For 2010, LMP1 will be reserved for (major automobile) manufacturers, and it will be for closed cars only.”

There have, at times, been lean years for Le Mans when they've depended on privateers. The lesson across all of motorsport is manufacturers come and go, but you can usually depend on the loyalty of some privateers with vision.

Second, a lot of manufacturers come in slowly. Realistically had we not had Sauber's efforts would we have seen the Mercedes efforts in the late 80s? Equally, with the consolidation of the global automobile industry are there enough manufacturers out there to pack the grid?

A point to think back to is 1995 - by the ACO's logic the Kunimitsu Honda NSX would have won...

There's plenty time for common sense to creep in. A neat solution might well be to have a requirement that the car or engine is associated with a roadcar manufacturer, much like the Group C regs. Let's hope things evolve in a positive direction.

[Erki]

As I said earlier, my ideal of racing isn't so much Audi vs Peugeot vs "major automobile manufacturer" but Audi vs Peugeot vs Dome vs Courage vs Lola vs Radical vs some other manufacturer and lots of competitive privateers of course.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by isynge

The bit that perturbs me is this (from DSC's coverage of the press conference)



There have, at times, been lean years for Le Mans when they've depended on privateers. The lesson across all of motorsport is manufacturers come and go, but you can usually depend on the loyalty of some privateers with vision.

Second, a lot of manufacturers come in slowly. Realistically had we not had Sauber's efforts would we have seen the Mercedes efforts in the late 80s? Equally, with the consolidation of the global automobile industry are there enough manufacturers out there to pack the grid?

A point to think back to is 1995 - by the ACO's logic the Kunimitsu Honda NSX would have won...

There's plenty time for common sense to creep in. A neat solution might well be to have a requirement that the car or engine is associated with a roadcar manufacturer, much like the Group C regs. Let's hope things evolve in a positive direction.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, P1 wll be for major manufactuers, true, but at the expense of major manufactuers in P2.

Lola, Courage etc. will still be able to compete in P1.

The ACO simply wish to see the specialist manufactuers have a devent chance in P2, rather than being rolled over by major manufactuers. Maybe the ACO approve of the Acura route, off the shelf chassis with factory engines. P1 reserved for the full factory effort.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Supercar

Now the problem will become that there will be too many GT-looking cars on the fields. How will you then be able to tell between them?

Now we know why the ACO clamped down so heavily on the MC12. That would have been confusing with the P1 coupes.

These days the GT1's are spectacular, quick, but look very much like production cars.

Incidently, Maserati are rumoured to be looking for a way back into sportscar racing, specifically to race at Le Mans. I wonder if these new regs will attract Maserati to P1.

[Shotteh]

Originally Posted by hakkiman

Its about time the ugly open cars were got rid of and we have proper sportscars back.

Would be fun to see DP's at Daytona. Come on ACO

To be fair, Daytona Crapotypes would be the last thing I would want to see at le mans. I love closed top prototypes but I do not even class DP's as prototypes, merely a rectangle with a large ugly dome stuck on top, which aren't really that quick.

I think that open cars do look quite nice, and I think it would be a good idea to have P1 as closed top, and P2 as open. You would get a nice contrast in looks between the classes.

What confuses me is the following rule:

-Styling from the manufactuers roadcars must be incorporated

It seems somewhat ambiguous.. how exactly will they be able to police this sort of rule? Would a Toyota Prototype have top have the front end of a Prius? :P

[Flat12-Aircool]

One of the things I love about the current prototypes is the large rear wing, these new Daytona Prototype style machines just don't do it for me.

I hope the LMP2 class can still keep many of the current reg's i.e. large rear wing, so we can at least have some decent looking sportscars on the grid.

Also looking at the "illustration" am I to presume that those stupid rear end "diffuser flaps" are to be gotten rid of?

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Shotteh

What confuses me is the following rule:

-Styling from the manufactuers roadcars must be incorporated

It seems somewhat ambiguous.. how exactly will they be able to police this sort of rule? Would a Toyota Prototype have top have the front end of a Prius? :P

I think that's supposed to mean the cars are to have the light clusters and grills etc. of that particular generation of their road cars. For an example, think of the infamous BMW kidney grilles with the roundel logo in the middle, something that is generally associated with the brand styling.

Although someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

[ger80]

Styling from the manufactuers roadcars must be incorporated

Super GT 500 with a bigger restrictor -> GT 700 ???
I realy dont understand who the ACO want to manage that

[JAG]

Its simple, by outlawing single seater style noses, and cutting down on air intakes etc. a manufactuer can fit light clustersl/grilles that draw styling cues from the road cars.

The current R10 could not have an Audi style grille, but if the front was similar to the 2001 Bentley or Mercedes CLR, something could be incorporated.

I doubt these will be mandatory, but surely manufactuers will want them? Little details like the chrome wing mirrors help the R10 'look' like an Audi.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Flat12-Aircool

One of the things I love about the current prototypes is the large rear wing, these new Daytona Prototype style machines just don't do it for me.

I hope the LMP2 class can still keep many of the current reg's i.e. large rear wing, so we can at least have some decent looking sportscars on the grid.

Also looking at the "illustration" am I to presume that those stupid rear end "diffuser flaps" are to be gotten rid of?

Iguess you can't please everyone, some like coupes, some don't.

Some didn't like the 2003 Bentley, but loved the CLR/911 GT1 era coupes (which these new P1's will look like).

As for the diffuser stuff, I think the chassis and bottom of the car stay as they are.

[nickyf1]

Originally Posted by JAG

The current R10 could not have an Audi style grille, but if the front was similar to the 2001 Bentley or Mercedes CLR, something could be incorporated.

I doubt these will be mandatory, but surely manufactuers will want them? Little details like the chrome wing mirrors help the R10 'look' like an Audi.

Putting the Audi grill on the R10 would make it one of the ugliest cars on the grid! I am looking foward to this 'new era' Coupes are great.

[Caramba]

I'd agree that the CLR/911 GT1/McLaren, etc looked far better than the ugly open top prototypes filling the grids now.

Porsche back with a race winning GT coupe would be great.

[Erki]

I like the current open protos, nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with closed ones either.