Buying Cars from Private sellers

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by terence

Stirrer😂

That's only the small ones!

Could have an interesting debate over 3 versus 5 bearing cranks. The former has been tried with several types of engine (where it can be done) due to less frictional losses etc, but not often a success?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

That's only the small ones!

Could have an interesting debate over 3 versus 5 bearing cranks. The former has been tried with several types of engine (where it can be done) due to less frictional losses etc, but not often a success?

The Ford 3 bearing block that was and is used in the smaller cc engines is still a brilliant screamer, When Ford upped the cc to 1340cc in the Classic they used a "chocolate" hollow crankshaft that used to break all the time if you revved it too much as most of us found in the day !
But if you use a decent steel crank in these blocks they are a demon engine, a mate of mine had a 1340 all steel engine in his Anglia that used to easily beat much bigger cc cars and was capable of actually winning the races outright and not only his class.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

That's only the small ones!

Could have an interesting debate over 3 versus 5 bearing cranks. The former has been tried with several types of engine (where it can be done) due to less frictional losses etc, but not often a success?

B series its not,it takes a lot of money to prep the block,a good steel crank is also expensive and also weighs as much as the five crank.
Better torsional stiffness of the five is more desirable but is still prone to the previously mentioned vibrations.
Its this vibration that causes the dynamo bolts to come loose and can also wreck the condenser which is why its often better to use the remote version from Rippspeed which is mounted on the inner front wing away from those nasty vibes.😉😉

[terence]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

The Ford 3 bearing block that was and is used in the smaller cc engines is still a brilliant screamer, When Ford upped the cc to 1340cc in the Classic they used a "chocolate" hollow crankshaft that used to break all the time if you revved it too much as most of us found in the day !
But if you use a decent steel crank in these blocks they are a demon engine, a mate of mine had a 1340 all steel engine in his Anglia that used to easily beat much bigger cc cars and was capable of actually winning the races outright and not only his class.

Good enough to hit ten thou.

[bauble]

This place appears to be inhabited a lot of cheats. Legal or otherwise.

I am well out of it all.

[Rudernst]

regardless of what engine size is wellcome in what series.

the car in question had an HTP
in that HTP bore, stroke and CCs are listed
at the end of the HTP the is the "competitors declaration"
in which the competor applying for the HTP confirms that ALL data entered into the HTP is correct
below this declaration is the dotted line for the signature
which the competitor signs with what he considers his good name

if i were motorsport professional,
i would settle in some way to make this issue go away

if he doesnt.....
one can always look up the FIA sanctions for filing a incorrect information into an HTP....

just my 0,02

RuE

[Lancsbreaker]

I understand the point, but surely that pre-supposes that everyone signing has either undertaken the rebuild themselves, or at least supervised it.....

Unlikely I'd guess.

[Mike Bell]

I'm sure there is still 'wriggle room' for the vendor even if a declaration is signed. As said several times, move on.......

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I understand the point, but surely that pre-supposes that everyone signing has either undertaken the rebuild themselves, or at least supervised it.....

Unlikely I'd guess.

no, I dont agree
by signing the HTP the competitor declares that the data is correct
it his duty to make sure his declaration is true
whichever way he uses to do so
irrelevant if he performed or specced the rebuild himself


RuE

[terence]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

no, I dont agree
by signing the HTP the competitor declares that the data is correct
it his duty to make sure his declaration is true
whichever way he uses to do so
irrelevant if he performed or specced the rebuild himself


RuE

100 per cent correct.Why FRAUDULENTLY complete a legal document.?

[Mike Bell]

Sooo... What if the HTP was issued to a previous owner and it's not the current vendor's signature on the papers?

Sorry, but while I admire the above principle and logic, For me the best approach is to not pay too much for a car in the first place, and expect something to be wrong with it!

How often do you see or hear the phrase 'Race Ready' used to describe a car for sale? Mmmm. Buyer beware indeed.....

[john ruston]

Buy cars when they cross finish line!
Make sure you get all the spares and history files.

[exnigel]

Hi all
I am now the proud owner of a 1965 1800cc engine from MGDavid: will deliver it to the engine builder on monday and hopefully it will be a better way to get back to legality than sleeving the existing block. I will keep you updated with progress.

On the HTP matter raised by Rudolf, I made my purchase of the car conditional on the issue of a new HTP, as I wanted to make sure that the car was eligible for the series I wanted to run in, and had lengthy conversations with the vendor about this, who assured me time and again that the engine was 1840 and fully compliant, and that when he and his co drivers beat other people it was very satisfying as they knew they were legal.......
The vendor filled out all the htp papers, putting in bore stroke etc and all other details, Rob Ellis inspected the car (but wouldn't have dismantled the engine to check that) and then after the draft papers had been approved by the MSA, and the inspection and the FIA fee paid by the vendor, ironically I signed the competitor declaration as the new owner as that seemed easier than going through the change of owner procedure immediately after issue. It was the vendors suggestion that I sign!
Looking at the declaration it is slightly confusing, as firstly you certify it as correct, but then it talks about "we furthermore accept that if at a later date our answers are shown to have been knowingly incorrect or inaccurate that this HTP will be immediately cancelled".
Make of that what you will: I am not sure that it would make that much difference if the vendor had signed from a legal perspective, as I signed relying on his representations. I have no idea if the FIA would take a different view.
I am going to talk to the vendor again on monday and suggest that as a minimum some contribution should be made to the additional expense caused by his false representation, even if it was unknowing. Lets see what he says.
nigel

[Paul D]

I wish you the best of luck with this, I really do: no one likes being stitched up by a vendor, knowingly or otherwise. And it's probably happened to most of us who've spent our lives around cars. I know it's happened to me on more than one occasion!

However, the cynic in me thinks he knows what your vendor is going to say when you speak to him - I just hope he's wrong!

[JP12]

If you want an MGB engine that's fully compliant with the HTP then you'll also need the standard 1.56" inlet valves, standard rods, early 5 main crank and flywheel all compliant with the minimum weights on the homologation form. It's not just the capacity that makes most of the current engines illegal.

There seem to be two accepted types of FIA legal MGB engine. The current all steel spec 1840cc with the lightest internals available with the biggest valves possible and the period Group 3 spec as per the homologation form.

If you build a proper period spec engine you will certainly be in the minority and, unfortunately, uncompetitive.

Joe

[exnigel]

Somewhat predictably the vendor continues to assert that he did not know that the engine was not as described, and that there was no reason that he should have known as he treats all engines as a component and gives them to the engine builder to service refresh etc, so whilst he is very sorry that we have all been misled by the engine builder, he does not think it is down to him and, as I have said before, the engine builder has passed away so there is no recourse there either.
Frustrated as I am, and despite the legal advice I have received that representations need to be accurate when selling second hand cars (there is a category called negligent misrepresentation) and are not automatically covered by the "as seen" get out, the scale of the issue does not really lend itself to pursuing the matter in court.
I have toyed with putting the names up here, but I don't think that is the right way to behave, so somewhat disillusioned I am reluctantly closing the file and getting on with life.
In future I will have to import more of the business attitude "in god I trust everyone else brings me data" into my leisure activities and hope that it doesn't affect the enjoyment too much.
best to all
nigel B

[Rudernst]

Nigel

You are certainly right to move on !

the fact that You dont name names here means that you are the Gentleman that the other party evidently is not.


RuE

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

Nigel

You are certainly right to move on !

the fact that You dont name names here means that you are the Gentleman that the other party evidently is not.


RuE

Excellently put, well done!

[Derwent Motorsp]

I've done Equipe GTS for more than ten years and many of the cars, if not most are 1950cc. It is now very difficult to get a b series block that had not been bored a few times, the same with A series blocks.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

I've done Equipe GTS for more than ten years and many of the cars, if not most are 1950cc. It is now very difficult to get a b series block that had not been bored a few times, the same with A series blocks.

std bore A series blocks are usually available, you just need to know who to ask

[terence]

Nothing wrong with sleaving down so not really a valid argument
I have known standard sized blocks to have one sometimes two cylinders sleaved from the factory,probably because the bores were not considered good enough and failed inspection prior to assembly.
Problem is that a lot of people dont overbore correctly,boring all bores in line makes for a very small deck landing which leads to poor gasket sealing.
Once that block needs attention theres not much can be done with it,door stop or skip really.