Unfulfilled talents - those who never achieved potential?

[macca]

One thread running through this thread (sorry) is how often young Brits' careers tail off too soon maybe due to lack of sponsors.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Ralph Firman get into F1 at last because I thought he was going the way of Marc Hynes, Oliver Gavin, Robbie Kerr, Martin O'Connell, Jamie Davies, Darren Manning and, basically, any British driver who wins or does well in F3 or F3000, or even has a good test with the likes of Mc****n but then gets shelved while Riccardo Moneybags, Ryan Aussimate, Townsend Letsavayankineffone, Heikki Mightbeanotherkimi and Giancarlo Loadsalira who used to finish behind them get the breaks.

Sorry again, bit of a rant there!

Paul

[chunterer]

I see that Mansell name appearing again! Yes great driver but he fulfilled his talent really.

Zafarelly, i agree about 'Impey' i'm positive he would have won at least one championship but for the accident.

Kelvin's a good one, i guess he never had the money at the right time, still don't understand what happened with the Super Nova 3000 test when he looked a shoe in for a season with them and then nothing happened?

Gil De Ferran and Helio Castroneves, recent Penske teammates? Although both v succesful in CART/IRL neither got chance in F1. Tom Walkinshaw tried like mad apparently, to get Gil in a Ligier in the 90's cos he rates him. I hope Helio still gets a chance cos i reckon he's simialr to Montoya - a real charger, and also a great personality. Imagine 'Spiderman' climbing up the fencing at Monaco? Priceless!

[zefarelly]

Its always good to see young drivers get somewhere on talent as opposed to being born rich . . .and or having famous parents, I'm convinced there are twice as many more talented drivers from poor backgrounds as there are eX champ jr's

[chunterer]

I'm all for that Zefa'! seems a lot of drivers with talent who haven't made it are British, unfortunately! But i'm not biased towards them. I've always given been fan of drivers who give 200% all the time and are spectacular, again unfortuantely quite a few ran out of money or opportunities before they hit pay dirt.

One of the ultimate examples of a superstar from 'poor' background was JV's dad, wasn't he?, but that is rare indeed nowadays

[ensign14]

Andy Wallace should have made it to F1.

Geoff Lees was VERY talented and a top development driver. It was a crime that he never had a permanent F1 drive.

Helmuth Koinigg showed more than enough to suggest he was a lost talent. Roger Williamson and Chris Irwin ditto.

Tony Brise lapped his team mate after about 3 races in F1. His team-mate went on to win the World Title.

I would have loved to see Joerg Muller in F1 as well.

[Dani Interlagos]

Let’s not forget about Cevert.
I totally agree Gil de Ferran deserves a chance.

[chunterer]

Stefano Modena?! What the hell happened there. Was he another Italian who bottled it or was he overrated to begin with? His F3 drives were good against v strong Italian opposition and i saw him in several 3000 races in '87. At Birmingham he destroyed the field. Apart from a few with Brabham and one or two with Tyrrell (Monaco '91) he plummeted which i found v disappointing.

Anyone offer anything else on this guy?

[chunterer]

when i say a few and one or two i mean performances in F1!

[Ryo28]

Yeah Modena finished 3rd at Monaco in 89 with the Brabham (no mean feat after having to pre qualify), and inherited 2nd at Canada in 91 after Mansells famous last lap retirement. He was generally disappionting in the Honda powered 91 Tyrrell though, as Alesi had done better the previous year in the same car but with the underpowered Ford engine. Then Modena went to Jordan with the yamaha engine in 92 and it finished his F1 career...and the same car also finished team mate Mauricio Gugelmins F1 career - yet another unfulfilled talent...

[chunterer]

Thanks Ryo that's a good precis of Modena's F1 career. He seemed to only excel at Monaco didn't he? In '91 he was easily second until blew up. Think unfortunately that the 019/020 chassis was good but couldn't be adapted to use the mega heavy but powerful v10 well enough. If they'd swapped the DFR for the works Ford engine it would've flown!!

Good point about Big Mo, but although he won F3 title, i never got the impression that he was an ace in waiting, if you know what i mean. Comparing him to Capelli in the March, he would outqualify Ivan but then go backwards in the race, whereas Ivan would tend to come through the field? Mo was a very smooth driver though i'll give you that, what do you reckon?

[chunterer]

Actually, Simon Graves, who starred in BTCC production couple years ago is bl***y quick in anything and someone should give him a drive.

[Junior Senior]

I always rated two Irish lads by the names of Jonathan McGall and Bernard Dolan........
I think Jonathan now works for his father's civil engineering company, and Bernard is still involved in race preparation.
Also, Vincenzo Sospiri didn't have the chance to show what he could do in F1.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by chunterer
Stefano Modena?!
...
Anyone offer anything else on this guy?

Check out the Ask Nigel archives, I think there's something there about a comment from Keke Rosberg.

Modena had been given a 1 off chance with Brabham in 1987 (I think) for his GP debut and he retired through neck pains.

"Forget him," said Keke, "a real racing driver would CARRY it home in his first GP. He'll get nowhere."

Contrast Mansell, sitting in a bath of petrol which gave him 2nd degree burns at Austria 1980, and only retired when the engine blew.

[Tony F.P.]

Jacques Villeneuve had not hit His prime when He jumped from Williams to BAR,don't know Why...Maybe Money.

One thing is Certain Villeneuve Took the Williams CURSE with Him. Not one Driver ever Won an F1 Championship after leaving Williams.

[krt917]

How about Pierluigi Martini? Did amazing things in...a Minardi! And he was quick as soon as he jumped into Sportscars too.

Going back a lot further, Giancarlo Baghetti sunk almost without a trace after his debut win. Mind you, the ATS couldn't have helped!

Ricardo Rodriguez and Stefan Bellof stand as perhaps the two talents that promised the most and were tragically killed particularly early.

Roger Williamson......could have been the best.

[Chris Townsend]

I'd add two guys who actually ran as team mates in FF for a while:
Tommy Byrne and Roberto Moreno

Moreno was a class act driver who regularly signed for teams whose designer's talents might have been better suited to milk floats.
Look at the field he beat at the Australian GP in 1981. He blew away Piquet and Jones in the year they were fighting for the world title.

Tommy paid the price for getting into F1 too early, and I also wonder if there wasn't a tempramental issue. If the car wasn't right he perhaps couldn't be bothered to get it there.

Chris

[chunterer]

Tommy had a cracking record on the way up didn't he? Yes that's one of the best examples we've had so far, Good one Chris! Felt sorry for Moreno after the Benetton debacle of '91, he's finally got to a team that his talent deserved and was crueally brushed aside by politics.

Hey how about Enrique Mansilla, he was pretty damn quick wasn't he? Remember watching him in few F3 races in '82 and he looked top talent. Ran out of money in '83 i recall. He could've been mega, despite being early victim of an Da Silva outburst in FF1600! For Ayrton to do that, he must have seen Quique as a real threat!!?

[Dan Rear]

Moreno, well maybe perhaps. Agreed he was ace in F Pacific, good in FF and F3 too. But he never looked special in F1 I thought, big chance at Benetton, after a good start in late 90, and didn't really do it. This was before the Schumacher/Jordan debacle of late 91. Tauranac rated him though, which says something I suppose.

[Chofar]

Jarier , quoted early in the thread, is still storming a viper in the FFSA GT. When the car is big enough to contain him, he's still a led foot. At Dijon, i remember him setting the pole in Porsche cup after having done a 'four wheels over the kerb' before the Pouas curve. And i can't remember hearing the throttle coming back from full (sp?).
He also rents some balconys at good prize for the Monaco GP.

[M Greenslade]

What about Stephen South who I remember did very well in British F3 in the mid 70's and then I think went to America and had a bad accident which finished his career and what about Tony Trimmer. - Balders

[John Turner]

If we are talking simply about drivers who did not reach the level which their skill and talent merited, rather than those who did not succeed at the highest level then, I suggest Willie Green was as good as, if not better than many of the names mentioned. If we are talking about those who died at the highest level before achieving their peak, Seaman would surely have won far more than one GP. Then there were those whose careers were curtailed or interrupted by the war, like Wimille.

[henk4]

(ex)teammates of Michael Schumacher may all qualify just take Irvine, Barrichello and even Verstappen.

[John Turner]

I'm struggling a bit with that one, Henk. It might be because of Michael's ability to pull a team together to make a competive package that enabled Irvine to win any races at all (he also had a Le Mans win) and Rubens is also benefitting from this and still adding to his tally. I think with a few GP wins under his belt he will have realised his potential and he has had his 'day of days' with that superb drive at Silverstone this year - one of the greatest drives of all time which will not be forgotten. As for Jos, he has never really had a good car under him and it is difficult to tell, but you may well be right.

[Dan Rear]

John, agreed re Irvine, always overrated I thought, and not just because I don't like him as a person ! Didn't do it in F3, not really in 3000, and usually outperformed by Rubens at Jordan. As I recall of his 4 wins in the 99 Ferrari, 3 were gifted, only 1 genuine, and then after the Mclarens had fallen off.