F1's 2017 rising stars analysis

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Never heard a more sad radio comment than stroll saying "please help me" to his crew. I asked in the race thread, but do y'all think he even wants to be there or does his daddy want him him there?

I thought it was a bit weak and something he should have known, but then Martin Brundle went into a big explanation of what he needed to do (something about alternating brake and accelerator and weaving like madman) and it did sound complicated. He is only 18. Most 18 year olds can't even tie their shoelaces. You could probably count the number of single seater races he done so maybe whatever the team were asking him to do is not something he's ever had to do before.

[Gingers4Justice]

Erm, why are we discounting Verstappen as a rising star? He's in his 4th season of car racing and still a teenager!!

Based on the career trajectory of the new generation so far, Verstappen's looking good for Schumacher-levels of domination through the second half of his twenties because the other guys around his age - or even slightly older - are nowhere near his level.

Of the drivers U25, based on what I've seen so far, only Sainz has the talent to touch him in the same or similar car.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Never heard a more sad radio comment than stroll saying "please help me" to his crew. I asked in the race thread, but do y'all think he even wants to be there or does his daddy want him him there?

He sounded like he was going to cry - I don't think I've ever heard such a pitiful message from a driver over team radio.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

He sounded like he was going to cry - I don't think I've ever heard such a pitiful message from a driver over team radio.

He was moaning that the brakes were cold.

He subsequently retired with overheating brakes.

Make of that what you will, but it doesn't sound to me like a driver with the ability to cope under pressure and puzzle his way out of a hole. Rosberg he most certainly isn't.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

He sounded like he was going to cry - I don't think I've ever heard such a pitiful message from a driver over team radio.

That was exactly what I thought when I heard it too Bert. A bit like "Daddy, make them stop the ride I want to get off!"

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Erm, why are we discounting Verstappen as a rising star? He's in his 4th season of car racing and still a teenager!!

Based on the career trajectory of the new generation so far, Verstappen's looking good for Schumacher-levels of domination through the second half of his twenties because the other guys around his age - or even slightly older - are nowhere near his level.

Of the drivers U25, based on what I've seen so far, only Sainz has the talent to touch him in the same or similar car.

He's above the "rising star" status imo. He's a plain star. It would be insulting to him to discuss him in the same way as those others.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

He's above the "rising star" status imo. He's a plain star. It would be insulting to him to discuss him in the same way as those others.

I'm not wanting to insult his ability, but assuming he'll race into his thirties, this current period will be regarded as the early beginnings of his career. He hasn't achieved anything yet.

[Razzzor]

Well I wasn't including him because he's already beyond the point of those other guys. 2 years you're still learning. He's into year 3 now and with a top team, won a race. We know he's a star and it would be hard to compare to those other guys because he's always going to be ahead of them. And if we included him, we'd have to include Sainz, Kyvat, Ericsson...

When Sainz joins Ferrari next year (wink) we can't really compare him to Vandoorne.

In fact if you take Mercedes out of the results, Verstappen would have won 5 races last year.

[S griffin]

Stroll really makes it sound like it wasn't his choice to move up and is now struggling more than ever than the current cars

[Razzzor]

Ocon all the way this time isn't it? Potential DOTR, Perez really should have been told to get out the way to give Ocon a shot at the podium. Although it's unlikely he would have made the move, it shows how the team feel about Perez and not wanting to ruffle his feathers at all in case he moves on to Ferrari. Ocon was only a tenth off Perez in all 3 quali rounds too. He's becoming a potential star of years to come with this performance.

Stroll actually did okay, passing a lot of guys on track which makes up for his terrible qualifying (10 positions behind Massa). 6th f.lap.

Magnussen was running okay for a while, but seemed to drop back. Not sure why. Perhaps stayed out too long on the first set (46 laps).

Palmer pretty weak race, nowhere near his team mate. A second off in qualifying and well behind in the race but somehow jumped past Magnussen and Vandoorne at some stage. Too late, I don't see him being around in 2018. Hulk has made him look rubbish. Who's in line for that Renault seat next year? Don't say Alonso, I think that would be a step backwards especially if McLaren switches to Merc engines. The McLaren isn't THAT slow when it's running, Alonso is usually top 10, it's more the unreliability.

Vandoorne; damn, what you doing boy? Good start to be ahead of Alonso. I thought finally Vandoorne is going to show some consistency after that previous one off good showing and have a race with Fred. But nope, they were all passing him and he dropped like wet fish, finishing pretty much last. F.lap a second slower than Alonso's. Not a good performance from Stoff. I know Alonso's pretty great, but does Stoffel not have the same equipment or something? Is the engine turned down?

Only Wehrlein behind but he had that first lap trouble and had to make 2 pit stops, so never recovered from that.

[marcel82]

Stoffel said after the race that they needed to save a lot of fuel. pair that with Alonso's earlier season comments that he will push the entire race, and his early exit, maybe Alonso just ignores the fuel-saving demand, while Stoffel abides by it (maybe a bit too much?)

I'm sure there's more than 1 reason for the difference, but seeing the cars just breeze by him on the straight was painful

[bella]

ocon is delivering in a sainz fashion - quietly but effectively. vandoorne had a bit more attention but he was going into a far worse situation. better a slightly off the pace reliable car than a very off the pace unreliable one after all.

i don't think vandoorne's situation is black and white, alonso is a notoriously poor teammate and stoffel isn't a tugger so there's other stuff going on.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Stroll actually did okay, passing a lot of guys on track which makes up for his terrible qualifying (10 positions behind Massa). 6th f.lap.

hopefully he turned a corner with this race but yeah he actually did ok. looked like he belonged out there anyways so thats something.

right track right country for it to happen at too!

[S griffin]

Stroll finally showed his potential and I hope this isn't a one off for his fans, because this could lead to more

Ocon would have been challenging for the podium, but for Force India's decision to let them race

Stoffel not sure about his race, Magnussen seemed to be a bit all over the place in battle and Jolyon would do better if he qualified better

[Adam43]

Paddy Lowe complimented his race craft. He's in a good place to judge, not least because he probably paid attention to Stroll all through the race. Whenever I saw him, even when making up places, he looked nervous and ragged.

I hope this gives him confidence and he can take that forward.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Paddy Lowe complimented his race craft. He's in a good place to judge, not least because he probably paid attention to Stroll all through the race. Whenever I saw him, even when making up places, he looked nervous and ragged.

I hope this gives him confidence and he can take that forward.

Is that the same Paddy Lowe whose entire employment is funded by the 80m Mr Stroll pays for the drive?

[Adam43]

Yes, that's the one

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Magnussen was running okay for a while, but seemed to drop back. Not sure why. Perhaps stayed out too long on the first set (46 laps).

Magnussen had a penalty for overtaking under the virtual saftey car so that would have dropped him back.

Good to see Stroll finally get some points - he still looked very ragged though. It would have been interesting to see how Massa got on but his early exit means we don't know if Stroll had a great race or Williams had a great car.

[Razzzor]

Who else cursed when Bottas crossed the line the tenth ahead of Stroll? Stroll so deserved that. Bottas being gifted a lap back (maybe 2) did not. But still 3rd better than nothing, and a great performance from him. People might have to stop on all the Stroll pay-driver hate, he's really not that bad. To be 0.1s off 2nd and only 4sec behind Ricciardo for the win. Imagine if Stroll had won the race? If Ricciardo had retired at the start then Stroll would have won it! The time lost when Ricciardo passed him would have been more than 0.1s. It would Panis 96 all over again haha.

Ocon did really well again. Sure, he wrecked and put his team mate into the wall, small whoopsy there. Somehow came back to 6th. But in quali he was only 0.06s off Perez. For him to do this in a new team, against Perez who's probably at his peak, really says things about his future. Ocon can only get better with experience, and getting better will put him easily ahead of Perez.

Magnussen also did really well, I was hoping he might hold on to 5th for while. Much better than Grosjean, quickest lap in quali 0.6sec faster than Grosjean who went out in Q1 and had brake issues in the race.

Wehrlein didn't stand out this time - in fact he was supposed to have given that position back to Ericsson and it looks like he didn't.

Vandoorne, what happened to him? At one point again ahead of Alonso, but ends up half a minute behind at the finish. Last in quali. Looks like he made an extra pit stop (3 in total?).

That leaves? Oh yeah... Palmer. Well he had no luck this weekend with car problems. Did he wall it in one of those sessions? But no Prac3, no qualifying and only about 10 laps in the race before retiring, while running last mind you.

[S griffin]

Stroll, I agree got a moral second place. On a street circuit, it's usually the inexperienced ones who throw it away, yet this time it was the more experienced ones who had trouble, whilst Stroll stayed out of trouble till the end

Ocon maybe could have given Checo more room, but what a recovery never gave up

Magnussen looked good in third, but then the quicker cars got past him and 7th was probably the maximum

Vandoorne, well Fred is just maybe putting that car above par, that it makes Stoffel look bad

Palmer, shame about him, he looked racey against Wehrlein and who knows his softly softly approach could have given him a point or two considering how chaotic the race was

[BSchneiderFan]

Stroll did well. Unlucky to lose second over the line but the Mercedes is clearly a faster car in a drag race. But a podium, around a tricky circuit, when chaos was everywhere, is a very good result.

[Razzzor]

Good to see Ocon finally beat Perez. If Perez will never follow team orders and let Ocon past, then nor should Ocon let Perez past. It's not relevant who's faster or what strategy they're on.

Vandoorne had a decent performance for once and was holding off Alonso. Vandoorne was up to 8th at one point, although I think it was after the FI's pitted and before Ricciardo got past. But he was on for a point but then Massa got the undercut. Close at least, and he may have held off Alonso.

Stroll was right up there with Massa but then made an extra stop for some reason.

Magnussen decent performance, out of the points but ahead of Grosjean.

Wehrlein made 3 pit stops so must have had issues.

Palmer having the worst luck, even worse than Verstappen! I don't know why anyone, let alone Alonso, would want to replace Palmer at Renault. The thing is even less reliable than the Honda.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Wehrlein made 3 pit stops so must have had issues

IIRC, He made 2 stops under Safety car: one to put the medium tire on for 1 lap, and then one to go back to soft. The 3rd stop was an extra stop for a new set of supersofts.

[S griffin]

Didn't notice that this is the first time Ocon beat Perez, but it's another good job in a very consistent season

Vandoorne beat Fred even without Fred's penalty, was holding his own in the race and just got pipped by Massa during the pitstops, but a good effort

Stroll has did well in Austria, less so in GB, but at least we know now he can drive well

Magnussen, agreed decent job, beat Grosjean who had an unnecessary collision with Ericsson

Wehrlein seems to be continuing where Nasr left off with arguments with Ericsson, no doubt though he is pushing that Sauber more than Marcus

Palmer, yes he is certainly up there with Fred and Max for bad luck this season. In the past five races he's been the collector of the worst position ever three times (11th) and had two mechanical problems, one in an high attrition race and one after just qualifying outside the top ten

[Razzzor]

Ocon ahead of Perez for most of the race, but it's clear Perez was faster. He had a 7sec pit stop with the penalty, Ocon pits 2 laps later and is somehow behind Perez? WTF was he doing for those 2 laps, 4 secs a lap slower? He certainly was mad about it and it would have been a big battle until Perez completely lost his head and tried to murder Ocon. Still Ocon close enough for it to be another good race for the rookie. But I fear this Perez battle is going to get to his head too much. I mean where on earth did he think he was going with that move? He was too far back to be going side-by-side into Eau Rouge. Those guys just need to be separated for a while instead of side by side at every race.

Wehrlein... hard to tell his performance when Sauber are so much slower than everyone else and then he retires. But wow is he really being replaced with Gio and Leclerc in the team? Leclerc totally deserves being in F1, though not in the slowest car, that's a waste. But Gio shouldn't be placed in the Sauber ahead of Wehrlein. When you look at how Leclerc has dominated F2 this year, Gio wasn't even close to his performance level in 2016, and wrecked in his last F1 race. I'm sure Werhlein in a Force India would be doing the same as what Ocon is and doesn't deserve the door already. Fred should be pushing for Perez' seat and Wehrlein could move to McLaren.

Perhaps Wehrlein could replace Palmer...

Speaking of whom, his career continues to barrel roll with more bad luck. Alonso pushes him straight off the track and no one cares.

Magnussen and Grosjean were together for most of the race, but Kev made an extra pit stop at the end which dropped him out of it. Not sure why.

Vandoorne, while Alonso was calling the race a test session, started at the back and finished at the back almost (apart from Kev and ericsson have 3rd pit stops). Did his f.lap on the last lap I think, 1.8sec faster than Alonso's. But maybe Fred had issues and never set a proper fast time. Vandoorne was pretty close to the main pack for most of the race though. He wasn't far off the pace. McLaren please tell Honda to gtfo.

Who else, oh Stroll. He couldn't really keep up with Massa in this one, but still made up positions. Probably lucky to get 11th but Spa must be tough on rookies.

So nothing special from the youngsters in this one, only Ocon nearly beating Perez but their battle is getting ridiculous and bad for the team.