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Old 17 Apr 2023, 02:04 (Ref:4151922)   #26
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Wec rankings after 2 rds;

1. Toyota
2. Ferrari
3. Porsche/Cadillac
5. Peugeot
6. Glickenhaus
7. Vanwall

I dont think theres much between the Porsche and the Caddy. I think thats going to be a closer battle at Spa with another Cadillac racing. I also think Vanwall will make strides and be better than Glickenhaus. Hopefully Jim keeps going and does more work on the car.
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Old 17 Apr 2023, 07:36 (Ref:4151935)   #27
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PhilipR should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPhilipR should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPhilipR should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Let's give it time! I remember the Toyota looking a handful and difficult in 2021 and not having competition is what saved them. Even last year they had issues with the hybrid motor forcing them to stop on track - but they had time to further develop and now have a well sorted car that they fully understand

I am glad this BOP is used to allow cars to reach their ultimate performance potential rather than artificially bunching the field together - it is still onto the teams to deliver if they want to win

Ranking:
Toyota
Ferrari/Acura
Cadillac(still think without the tire issues they would have challenged porsche at the end)
Porsche(slow in Long Beach but strategy and the usual WTR brain fart saved them)
BMW/Peugeot
Glickenhaus
Oreca 07
Corvette c8-r/ Porsche 911 gt3 rsr/ Ferrari 488
Steel Brakes
Vanwall
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Old 23 Apr 2023, 01:35 (Ref:4152526)   #28
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GT3_Fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGT3_Fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am going to rank in a new way.. The best looking cars. The cars along with the liveries we have seen are all factors. That is one thing that dings Toyota even though I like the car. The livery of Toyota Gazoo racing is so bland.

1. Cadillac (looks like the Corvette DP styling. All 3 colors are great too)
2. Ferrari
3. Peugeot (looks most like a GT car)
4. Toyota (I have grown into it after not liking it at first, livery still stinks)
5. Vanwall
6. bmw
7. glickenhaus
8. Porsche (too LMPish looking and generic. Penske livery sucks)
9. Acura (hate it, looks like a generic lmp car more than any other. The NSX Gt3 car looks good. Why can't they make their protos look good)
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Old 23 Apr 2023, 07:48 (Ref:4152537)   #29
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Originally Posted by GT3_Fan View Post
I am going to rank in a new way.. The best looking cars. The cars along with the liveries we have seen are all factors. That is one thing that dings Toyota even though I like the car. The livery of Toyota Gazoo racing is so bland.

1. Cadillac (looks like the Corvette DP styling. All 3 colors are great too)
2. Ferrari
3. Peugeot (looks most like a GT car)
4. Toyota (I have grown into it after not liking it at first, livery still stinks)
5. Vanwall
6. bmw
7. glickenhaus
8. Porsche (too LMPish looking and generic. Penske livery sucks)
9. Acura (hate it, looks like a generic lmp car more than any other. The NSX Gt3 car looks good. Why can't they make their protos look good)
Interesting. I'd put the blue Glick head and shoulders above everything else on looks....
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Old 29 Apr 2023, 18:17 (Ref:4153644)   #30
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Update after Long Beach and Spa…
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Old 30 Apr 2023, 06:11 (Ref:4153725)   #31
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Not a subjective ranking, just the WEC Manufacturers points table after Spa:

Toyota 90
Ferrari 57
Porsche 42
Cadillac 40
Peugeot 19
Glickenhaus 12
Vanwall 6
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Old 30 Apr 2023, 17:08 (Ref:4153858)   #32
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Looks like the adding up pretty much reflects the current state of play.

My subjective post Spa.

1. Toyota (no move)
Still the top and again I feel the gap is a little less now.
No reliability issues this time.
Going into the big one with confidence and the clear favorites.

2. Acura (no move)
No race. Would love to see their pace in WEC.

3. Ferrari (no move)
The pace is pretty much there.
The inability to warm up the tyres almost made them drop on this list!
I need to look at the relative performance of the drivers. Nothing is jumping out, but are they all as strong as each other.
At the last race I got the impression Ferrari was using more energy for its pace relative to Toyota. Is his true. Difficult to tell at Spa as I was distracted by the tyres.

4. Caddilac (up 1)
Best thing about the race,Van der Zande walking away unscathed.
I hope the crash doesn’t set them back.
I am still loving how drivable it looks.

5. Porsche (down 1)
OK. A 4th. Fine.
Reliability a concern, with Porsche! As Aysedasi points out, not even Porsche can expect instant success in this new world.

6. BMW (no change)
Could be above Porsche?

7. Peugeot (no change)
Better than Sebring. Better than Portimao. But still 7th.

8. Glickenhaus (no change)
At one point they’d played it well and were quite high up, but others recovered.

9.Vanwall (no change)
Villeneuve still grabbing all the (bad) luck there.
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Old 1 May 2023, 00:05 (Ref:4153938)   #33
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Looking at lap times (not just the fastest) the order from Spa looks like.

RankManufacturerNo.30th best lapGap to next
1. Ferrari !512:06.600 
2. Toyota72:07.0420.442
3. Caddilac22:07.7350.693
4. Porsche52:08.3770.642
5. Peugeot942:08.8270.450
6. Glickenhaus7082:09.3650.538
7. Vanwall42:11.6692.304
Vanwall might be suffering a little here with having a shorter race, but they are the slowest.

There is no real reason I chose 30th best lap, other than it kind of shows the gaps in the chart well.

The best performing car from the race was chosen for the chart and table.

For me the power rankings aren't just lap times, but this is interesting.
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Last edited by Adam43; 1 May 2023 at 00:25.
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Old 5 May 2023, 16:01 (Ref:4154639)   #34
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IMSA race next.

A chance for BMW to move up the rankings? …
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Old 11 May 2023, 22:00 (Ref:4155618)   #35
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Back to Sebring. A combined table for IMSA and WEC would look like this:

Average Lap time
RankCarFastestTop 10Top 50Top 100
1W8 Toyota1:47.8851:48.4271:48.9871:49.280
2W7 Toyota1:48.3621:48.7181:49.0511:49.378
3W50 Ferrari1:48.4831:48.8551:49.3121:49.613
4I10 Acura1:48.7331:48.9091:49.4331:49.915
5I31 Cadillac1:48.4061:48.8331:49.4521:49.929
6W2 Cadillac1:48.6071:49.1071:49.5481:49.861
7I1 Cadillac1:48.3111:48.7461:49.5991:50.239
8I7 Porsche1:48.6681:49.1371:49.7441:50.291
9W51 Ferrari1:48.8921:49.2201:49.8691:50.300
10I60 Acura1:49.0181:49.2791:49.8751:50.324
11I25 BMW1:48.3991:49.5251:50.0601:50.552
12I6 Porsche1:49.0331:49.3871:50.0621:50.544
13W6 Porsche1:49.3241:49.5731:50.1171:50.542
14W5 Porsche1:49.5111:49.8441:50.3511:50.754
15W94 Peugeot1:50.0921:50.3491:50.7891:51.273
16I24 BMW1:49.8051:50.4561:51.1261:51.908
17W93 Peugeot1:50.4781:50.8931:51.2211:51.513
18W4 Vanwall1:50.7881:51.1571:52.0501:52.689
19W708 Glickenhaus1:51.6201:52.1191:56.587 
(in order of the Top 50 laps times)

W is WEC and I is IMSA. Then the car number.

Last edited by Adam43; 12 May 2023 at 01:29. Reason: Table format
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Old 12 May 2023, 13:07 (Ref:4155685)   #36
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I think it would be interesting for an all green race, that way we can see if any of the hypercars actually have an advantage. Yes BMW is catching up, but without cautions will they be near the front?

I know caution free is rare for IMSA, but the P3's aren't here so.....
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Old 14 May 2023, 23:29 (Ref:4156163)   #37
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veeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Coming up,... the latest rankings post Laguna Seca.
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Old 15 May 2023, 00:58 (Ref:4156168)   #38
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That’s a difficult one!
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Old 15 May 2023, 02:13 (Ref:4156173)   #39
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I'm guessing the power rankings post Laguna are actually just pit strategy rankings.....
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Old 16 May 2023, 12:22 (Ref:4156377)   #40
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Speedy Table

To try and help with the rankings, but not the be all and end all here is a look at lap times.

This can be considered the relative pace of the the cars to the fastest at the most recent IMSA and WEC race.

RankManufacturerLap%
1Ferrari100.00%
2Toyota100.21%
3Cadillac100.88%
4Porsche101.28%
5Acura101.34%
6BMW101.45%
7Peugeot101.70%
8Glickenhaus102.05%
9Vanwall104.01%

(Comedy) Method:
  • The average of the top 20 lap times for each car at Laguna Seca was considered and the top 50 for Spa (considering the different race lengths)
  • The fastest car from each race was considered. The lap times compared to the fastest car overall. Hence Ferrari (only in Spa) was the fastest and is 100%
  • The Porsche and Caddy fastest were averaged in Laguna Seca and Spa and aligned.

Notes:
  • A great deal of thought did not go into choosing top 20 and top 50.
  • This is only the most recent races for IMSA and WEC
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Old 16 May 2023, 21:59 (Ref:4156487)   #41
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My Post Laguna Seca power rankings

Ranking, manufacturer, movement since Spa, relative pace of last IMSA/WEC race combined (see above)

1. Toyota (no move) 100.21%
No race, no challenge.

2. Ferrari (up 1) 100.00%
No race and up one! Madness?!
Well, the reason they remained third after Spa was the race craft, the preparation and the running in different conditions.
The Achilles heel of cold tyres has just been removed by allowing tyre warmers at Le Mans. They get a boost for that. I still think that overall Toyota have the race nous and experience to win out. Less so the speed. In theory Ferrari has the pace. In theory.

3. Caddilac (up 1) 100.88%
They won and deserved it in Laguna Seca. Made it count. Overcame their recent set backs from crashes. Looks a nice car to drive generally (although did see a lock up in the heat of battle).
But 3rd, 4th and 5th in this ranking are super close.

4. Porsche (up 1) 101.28%
An IMSA win followed by very strong practice and qualifying. And then lock-up! Difficult under braking, maybe? And then under pressure a crash.
Still some nice early showings from two privateer teams that went straight in at the deep end.

5. Acura (down 3) 101.34%
Super close 3rd - 5th, so a little unlucky here. Had pace at moments at Laguna Seca, but didn't get it to stick.

6. BMW (no change) 101.45%
Just behind the other three. Occasionally got amongst them (it is all very close)

7. Peugeot (no change) 101.70%
No race, but the Peugeot thread shows everyone is concerned.

8. Glickenhaus (no change) 102.50%
Continue to get stronger after Sebring, but not quick enough to challenge the factory produced machines.

9.Vanwall (no change) 104.01%
Vanwall. Villeneuve. Non vicisse.
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Old 17 May 2023, 18:38 (Ref:4156622)   #42
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Post Laguna and Spa. I'll do next one mid July.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Ferrari
4. Porsche
5. Acura
6. BMW
7. Peugeot
8. Vanwall
9. Glickenhaus
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Old 17 May 2023, 23:09 (Ref:4156649)   #43
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Cadillac in second. They weren’t having the best of rims coming into the race. And then what do you know they went and won it.
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Old 17 May 2023, 23:27 (Ref:4156651)   #44
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It looks very driveable and can benefit from instant torque, which is perfect for the tight IMSA tracks.

And it is "Cadillac."
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Old 26 May 2023, 20:05 (Ref:4158100)   #45
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It looks very driveable and can benefit from instant torque, which is perfect for the tight IMSA tracks.

And it is "Cadillac."
I am digging the Caddy VSR so far. The Caddy DPI sound great. The looks were meh. The Caddy VSR however looks like a hypercarish Corvette DP. Still has that great GM grunt sound to it.
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Old 27 May 2023, 00:06 (Ref:4158116)   #46
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Apart from the brake by wire that everyone seems to still be getting to grips varying degrees it looks like it hangles really well. Nice and controllable. A joy to watch when the drivers start leaning on it.
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Old 29 May 2023, 00:39 (Ref:4158653)   #47
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Speedy

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Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
...

This can be considered the relative pace of the cars to the fastest ...
This looks at the relative pace of the cars after different weekends. After Sebring (then we'd had a race of each), after the April weekend of Portimao and Long Beach, then updated after Spa (with Long Beach) and Laguna Seca (with Spa).

The (Comedy) Method:
  • The average of the Top 50 laps for each race (Top 20 for the shorter 1:40 and 1:20 races).
  • The fastest car from each race was considered. The lap times compared to the fastest car overall in that race.
  • For the cars in both races (The Porsche and Caddy) the fastest were averaged across the most recent IMSA and WEC race.
  • Then the cars that are only in one of the races are indexed to this.
  • The fastest overall index is then set at 100% and the others expressed relative to this.

Notes:
  • A great deal of thought did not go into choosing why top 20 for the shorter races or why top 50 for the faster ones - it just seemed a good compromise between trying to reflect consistency, but also not getting drop off due to conditions, or race dynamics.
  • At Sebring Vanwall and Glickenhaus didn't have the best, it is actually their Top 20 relative to the other's top 20. Otherwise they would have looked a lot worse.
  • If you don't race in the weekend your position may still change depending on how the benchmarked Caddilac and Porsche do.
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Old 29 May 2023, 15:47 (Ref:4158764)   #48
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Hot takes? None really. Wam takes? Maybe some.

Firstly, all these should be considered in the context of the scale. These are all close, especially the big factory teams.

Vanwall haven’t matched their Sebring pace. Whereas Glickenhaus have made he biggest gains after a terrible Sebring. They hadn’t tested for ages beforehand, but maybe there is also a change as to the type of circuit that suited each car.

Peugeot they are where they are.

BMW have had their moments, every now and again in a race, but that isn’t really showing here. I think that realistically shows where they are.

Acura have dropped away after their strong start (Daytona also isn’t included here).

Porsche dropped away after finding some pace on the Long Beach weekend.

And then Ferrari. We got a hint with that pole in Sebring, but it took them three races to get to the top. However, in that race they might have the fast consistency, but it was ruined by the awful tyre warming - at the other end of the fast lap spectrum they were nowhere.
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Old 29 May 2023, 19:51 (Ref:4158781)   #49
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veeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hey, guys... Been over on YouTube and saw a video doing a comparison of the racers. Right now it's about the cars in IMSA, more based on the overall looks of each one. There is to be another based on WEC entries coming soon.

If performance info will be used later in another video, then we could say that our thread may have been an impetus for it. Check it out for yourself.
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Old 29 May 2023, 20:09 (Ref:4158783)   #50
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I’ve tried to find it. Failed.

There are some videos on racer. Tech and sounds of each one. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...44ZfoyDHTmlke2
Pretty old now, but not bad.
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