ALMS - Stability - NOT!

[Kurt Maxwell]

Even if what you heard is any more valid than what I was told, would you argue the fact that Champion are getting substantial help from Audi?

I would be willing to bet that if the ADT funding is that substantial that Audi is involved. Perhaps monitoring for all their stores?

Sorry, but this is how these deals are done.

[Ken May]

Sorry, but this is how these deals are done.

[Kurt Maxwell]

Castrol sponsored the Jaguar factory team in IMSA. What do any of you think was the main reason they did it? Was it exposure?

[cybersdorf]

Maybe Jag just needed so much of the stuff, this came cheaper than paying them in cash.

[Kurt Maxwell]

Pretty close,Cy.

While the branding on the cars and association with Jaguar was nice, the primary objective was picking up the original fill business and having Castol become the featured oil at Jag dealerships. Again, most of the "sponsors" on factory sportscar teams have some kind of deal like this.

Don't believe me? Buy Guy Edwards 300 USD book. He tells how the Castol-Jag deal came together.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by Kurt Maxwell
Don't believe me?

Originally posted by Kurt Maxwell
No,things never do change with you.

[Liz]

Oh gee, another "it's all about money" thread at last? I've been so bored reading about racing and cars, waiting for someone to start talking about dollars and cents again. How long need we wait for "ROI" to be brought up and the guys in Nomex and helmets elbowed aside by the Men of Gucci Gulch?

I don't care if Alex Job Racing gets their cars and drivers from that flying chandieleer from Close Encounters of the Third Kind or their money from leprachauns. I just go to see them race.

[vwpilot]

I notice that ever since I posted what really happened with Job pulling out on thier own, Kurt has completely changed the subject to sponsorship.

What happened? Has the whole point of your original post been shot down now that the truth came out so you have to take shots at something else?

[Kurt Maxwell]

?????
What I was discussing supported the fact that Champion and Joest are factory teams and that even if there are corporate logos on the cars, these "sponsorships" are leveraged by Audi.

What was I taking shots at? I didn't even take a shot at you for proving that you clearly having no clue when you put up your last foolish post.

[Carousel]

Originally posted by vwpilot
I notice that ever since I posted what really happened with Job pulling out on thier own, Kurt has completely changed the subject to sponsorship.

Liz, Liz, Liz! vwpilot,vwpilot, vwpilot! Will you never learn? The subject is sponsorship! Autombile racing is only relevant to the extent that it affects sponsorship. How many times does this poor guy have to make that point?

[dretceterini]

I agree. Like it or not the world (even auto racing) operates on financial viability.

[Carousel]

Originally posted by Carousel
Liz, Liz, Liz! vwpilot,vwpilot, vwpilot! Will you never learn? The subject is sponsorship! Autombile racing is only relevant to the extent that it affects sponsorship. How many times does this poor guy have to make that point?

Okay, perhaps I chose the wrong emoticon. What I meant was:

[vwpilot]

Kurt,

You're right, I made the mistake of thinking you made the original post about Job getting screwed out of its privateer money.

I apologize for that, your original posts were about the sponsorship aspect of things.

My fault, I didnt go back and read the beginning of the thread again.

However, I think that the problems here are associated with what makes a factory team. Champion and Joest do get some help from Audi. They get support for the cars from engineers and they get the use of factory drivers. They might get a little money as well, however I do not think its very much. I have spoken with the guys at Champion when I wrote a feature on them for www.speedarena.com and they did not indicate that they get all that much help from Audi like they did when we spoke of the World Challenge cars. When that subject came up they talked about how they got a budget from Audi to run the cars and win races. That was never an indication with the R8.

This was last year when Joest was a factory team, but I think it remains the same. They got some help, they would share info, they got to use Audi drivers and Audi would tell them who to use when, however, they were cashing large checks from Audi at the end of the day. Most of their effort was from its own budget and its sponsors such as ADT. They might get some from Audi, but it was more like a sponsorship type deal than the money for developement and testing coming from on high.

Job is much the same way with Porsche, that is why they were considered privateer. However they chose to pull out and go factory on thier own.

By IMSA definition, factory is those entered by the factory themselves. Joest when it was Audi, GM, Caddy, and Panoz as Panoz. These were factory teams because the comapanies themselves were entering the cars.

Those with a private name, but money and support from the factory are not considered factory.

Again, I apologize for the jab Kurt, I thought you had gone way off from your original post. I was wrong, sorry.

[Kurt Maxwell]

thanks vw
-sorry if I offended you with my response.

km

[Liz]

As I am a person who has never paid any attention to money, considering it a tool or a means of keeping score but not of any intrinsic interest, at least since they have abolished pay toilets, I would rather talk about how we can get more competition into the GT class. An engineer at Alex Job told me that their cars were allowed to race each other this year just so they'd have somebody to race against. This is not a situation that ought to persist. Orbit Racing at least ought to be keeping up with them, if not Racers Group. Why aren't they?

[veeten]

Since Peter Gregg and Hurley Haywood drove for Brumos with factory support in '72, Porsche has picked top private teams to support in a series rather than enter a factory team. AJR and ALMS in 2003 are no different.

I guess this also applies to the Brumos team running their Porsche-powered DPs in Grand Am today, doesn't it?

Please apply all future descriptions of standards for factory support to ALL teams, regardless of series they run in, in order to retain impartiality and objectivity within the discussion.

Thank You.

[Liz]

What on earth is a Brumos? Sounds like something you'd find in Harry Potter.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally posted by Liz
What on earth is a Brumos? Sounds like something you'd find in Harry Potter.

I dont belive ur actually asking this! http://www.brumosracing.com They are one of (if not the) leading team in Grand Am at the moment. They dont have bad drivers either, not least Terry Borcheller..

[Chevyguy]

HA HA HA!!!!

Terry Borchellar races for Bell in the Doran Chevy, very well too. Check your link to correct yourself, and sorry for not resisting the urge to twist the knife on you. Flubbed that one pretty good, no?

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes I made a mistake - whoops. Still u never make any mistakes do u Chevyguy. Dont be so quick to jump on people when u make mistakes yourself. I was wrong with Borcheller, but heh at least I know who Brumos are.

Still I guess I got confused as to whom Borcheller races for now, as I dont follow Grand-Am that closely anymore. I obviously confused Bell Motorsports with Brumos. Ah well stuff happens.

[Chevyguy]

I'm about to check out the GA race. Mr. Borchellar must have put in another phenominal run, as they won again. You should take another look at GA, Terry is defying gravity in that car.

[SALEEN S7R]

Hey its not that I dont want to follow GA, its just its extremely hard. As we get 0 TV coverage of Grand Am in the UK now. We used to a couple of years back but now its all gone.

[Liz]

I never watch Grand Am. So that explains why I don't know they have cars named Nimbus 2000 and Cleansweep 7 as well as Broom-ho.

I watch ALMS.

[Jay]

Grand who in the what now?

[Fogelhund]

In the same way that IMSA became uninteresting to me during the Andy days, Grand AM is just not very interesting.