FIA Press Release re: Brazilian Grand Prix 2003/Jordan win? (merged)

[Adam43]

Championship if the result is changed:

1. Raikkonen 24 (-2 points)
2. Coulthard 15
3. Alonso 14
4. Fisichella 10 (+2 points +1 position)
5. Trulli 9
6. Montoya 8
7. Barrichello 8
8. M Schumacher 8
9. R Schumacer 8 (+2 points +1 position)
10. Frentzen 7
11. Villeneuve 3
12. Button 2
13. Heidfeld 1

Mark Webber loses his only 2 points of the year.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by jetsetter
I'm totally confused now, with eletronic timing how can they not know what lap they were on.

Good point. There is still no reason why the result could not have been cleared up seconds after the race was red flagged.

But then it wouldn't be the F1 we know and love!

Also I am surpised that there is any chance of change at this late stage. I know the result was provisional, but that was for a different reason (routine engine checks).

[SL]

I would think that the cars would probably have passed the timing beam somewhere on the slowing down lap or in repositioning to the grid for a restart. The timing things would not know that the race had been stopped unless there was very quick work by the race admin.

It is just when the cars crossed compared with what time the red was shown.

Simon

[The Nobody Guy]

The timing guys were probably watching the crashes on their TV screens rather than looking closely for exactly when the red flag was pulled out

[bosch!]

Look guys i dont get how you can b1tch about the rules being applied correctly. And by the way I was right. And by the way I wasnt thr only one. Its not rocket science look at the race Gdamit the evidence is there, the shots happened in real time it is easy to work out that fisi would have / DID start lap 56. I think that all you who shall remain nameless who slagged us looking for the correct, fair and true result should wind yer necks in not belly ache about a travesty being put right. someone even suggested we should get over it and move on.

How the race came to be called wrongly by the stewards is another matter and should be investigated. Look at EJ's statement, look at ron's statement, they both know that something fishy went on here. Why the hell has it taken until wednesday for this to come out! The evidence has to have been in the timing system all along, I bet its a matter of seconds, probably less than 10 BUT we deal with 1/100ths in this sport.

I swear I'll go for the first person to suggest that fisi doesnt deserve this win.

[ASCII Man]

Amen!

Testify!

Whoow!

[David McManus]

Well said Bosch

And Adam - I already posted the revised championships

[David McManus]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
I'm not disputing this - it's just that I can only remember 1 car passing Webber's wreckage. :confused:
My other question is: On what lap did Webber crash? Or did these guys actually pass Mark Webber when he spun at turn 3?
:confused:
I'm going to try to find my tape.

Webber crashed at the end of 54.

Therefore, even if Trulli pitted (as someone else suggested) - he still passed Webber.

[Peter Mallett]

My point was that they new the time they put the reds on and therefore the lap timers can identify the positon (sector) and order of the cars at that time. Beats me how they can confuse this.

[BootsOntheSide]

This is great, its clear that Giancarlo was the rightful winner, and it'll've only taken them 5 days, unlike last year's Indy 500, where 2 months of wrangling still got the wrong winner (not to mention the 2000 Presidential Election....)

[Laagri]

Originally posted by Hungary 89
All this said either way you have to feel sorry for Fisi at the end of the day even if he gets the win, He didn't get to stand on the top of the podium so it can never feel right

If the result is changed, they should redo the Brazilian podium after Saturday qualifying at Imola. This would let Fisichella get to hear the Italian anthem, in Italy as well, and spray the champagne as a winner, and also Alonso would presumably be able to make it up there with Fisi and Räikkönen this time.

I bet they don't organise a second podium ceremony, but it would be nice.

[ljakse]

I believe that the rule that says 'two laps prior to the red flag' is not there because they can't tell the exact order of the drivers at the moment of the flag, but because it usually takes some time to make a desicion to call for it.
I'm sure there were situations like this before where something that caused the red flag, also affected the order in the race - take Alonso this time: if there wasn't that rule, he is DNF, and I guess nobody would like to see that.

[Speeddemon555]

I am glad that the FIA intervene because that Brazilian race was so chaotic that the results were off.

[avsfan733]

Originally posted by David McManus
I was right...

So was I join the club, and to everyone who said rules are rules, well you were right, rules are rules

GO FISI!!!

Laagri Lovely Idea let it be so and also that way alonso gets to go up there too

[Mark Webber]

so when is this all happening ? or is it not ?

[Mal]

The simple answer is that the red flags came out immediately after Alonso's accident. If Fisi was in front of Alonso on the road then he had started his 56th lap and thus classification should have been after the 54th lap. If he was behind Alonso then he did not

[NiceGuyEddie]

According to Autosport.com, FIA as summoned the responsible officials, in order to determine whether or not Fisico did enter lap 56, before the red flag was flown!

and justice for all!

[kdr]

a couple of questions.

as i remember it, fisi went thru webbers wreckage, and then a while after trulli, then alonso came round, he pranged and caused the race to be stopped. was this the sequence?

i seem to recall that the were only sending out the safety car for webbers shunt? is that right?

[mirwin]

I believe the safety car was waiting at the end of the pit lane for Fisi.

I also remember Kimi and JV passing through Webber's crash site.

[LucaBadoer]

FEDERATION INTERNATIONALE DE L'AUTOMOBILE

PRESS RELEASE

2003 BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX

The FIA has received evidence which suggests that, contrary to the information supplied by the time-keepers at the Brazilian Grand Prix, car no. 11 (Fisichella) had started his 56th lap before the race was stopped. If this proves to be the case, the race classification would be that at the end of the 54th lap and not at the end of the 53rd lap as published. In accordance with Article 179(b) of the International Sporting Code, the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix will re-convene on Friday 11 April at 11.00 hrs at the FIA headquarters in Paris to review the results of the event. All competitors who would be affected by any change to the classification are being invited to attend.

Paris, April 9, 2003

[Mal]

That how I saw it. Webbers crash was to be saftey car only and this is why I couldnt undestand why the result was taken back so far. The red flag only occurred after Alonso's accident.

[Tom Fuller]

Due to the new news about the Fisi / Raikkonen thing - this would be the new standings if it was given to Fisi and classified to lap 54:

1 Giancarlo Fisichella / Jordan
2 Kimi Raikkonen / McLaren
3 David Coulthard / McLaren
4 Heinz-Harald Frentzen / Sauber
5 Jacques Villeneuve / BAR
6 Jarno Trulli / Renault
7 Ralf Schumacher / Williams
8 Christiano da Matta / Toyota

Drivers Championship
1 Kimi Raikkonen / 24 pts
2 David Coulthard / 16 pts
3 Jarno Trulli / 11 pts
4 Giancarlo Fisichella / 10 pts
5 Heinz-Harald Frentzen / 9 pts
6 Fernando Alonso / 8 pts

[BootsOntheSide]

Actually that's wrong Tom, Alonso crashed on lap 55 so would be classified after 54 laps. Also Raf passed trulli on lap 54 so would finish above him. The correct classifications are in this thread.

Good to see that the very second post on here contained the reality - Fisichella started lap 56, tehrefore, under the rules taking the result at the end of lap 54, he's teh winner.

editted because I moved the post from another thread to this one

[R]

Yep. Webber's crash caused the Safety Car, and Alonso's crash caused the red flag.

Whether Fisichella crossed the line to start another lap before the red flag was shown has been the issue all along, and something we've tried to establish since Sunday. What I can't understand is how on earth it is possible for the race organizers not to know at which lap they're calling the red flag. It makes them seem very very unprofessional. Unfortunately.

But Fisi deserves that win, and I'll be a happy chappie if he gets it. And I also agree with Laagri that they in that case should redo the Brazilian podium after Saturday qualifying at Imola. It probably won't happen, but it would be a nice gesture, when the whole mess is the race organizers' fault in the first place.

[Hungary 89]

Originally posted by R
Yep. Webber's crash caused the Safety Car, and Alonso's crash caused the red flag.

But Fisi deserves that win, and I'll be a happy chappie if he gets it. And I also agree with Laagri that they in that case should redo the Brazilian podium after Saturday qualifying at Imola. It probably won't happen, but it would be a nice gesture, when the whole mess is the race organizers' fault in the first place.

It may be a nice gesture and a nice thought but its hardly the same thing his first win (if the ruling goes that way)was still tainted. My hope is that he gets another chance