Greatest driver not to make it to F1 - Page 2

DNQ · 23 Aug 2001, 08:32 (Ref:134723)

Quote:

Originally posted by marcus
dont know about lowndes though..

marcus, it's not so much I think that Lowndes was particularly good enough too deserve an F1 drive, but I'm sure he deserved a better crack at F3000, which could have led to bigger and better things.

jiggly_puff · 23 Aug 2001, 10:19 (Ref:134768)

i'm sure muller has done something at sauber!!!!!! or maybe i dreamed that! but sarrazin did drive for minardi once!!!!!!

f1manoz · 23 Aug 2001, 10:31 (Ref:134774)

Quote:

Originally posted by jiggly_puff
i'm sure muller has done something at sauber!!!!!! or maybe i dreamed that! but sarrazin did drive for minardi once!!!!!!

Yes, Sarrazin did one race for Minardi in Brazil in 1999. But Muller has never raced in F1, only tested. I do believe he's tested at Sauber often.

Martin de Miguel · 23 Aug 2001, 15:45 (Ref:134899)

Jordi Gene deserved a chance but he had a timing money problem, I also believed that people like Junqueira or Muller, should have had a chance even though Junqueira may as well have it, and I also expect to see Kenny Brack at the pinnacle one day.
In regards to Paul Tracy on way on earth he would have been a championship contender not even with the KY Jelly

BBKing · 23 Aug 2001, 16:09 (Ref:134909)

Future is hardly on Brack's side. He is 34 years old and will be too old by the time he gets to F1 if he ever gets there.

There is a Chinese guy that is supposed to be riding a bike and that could beat all the present drivers in the grid today. Bernard Flinklenstein talks about him everytime he can. I don't know who he is but I guess he is the greatest that never made it into F1...LOL

Billie Joe · 25 Aug 2001, 21:53 (Ref:135850)

Tom Kristensen deserves a chance in F1. 3 time le mans 24 hours winner, a successful sportscar driver, winner of the last ever BTCC races in the uk (super touring)and he has tested f1 cars b4 i think

Ralf's Girl · 25 Aug 2001, 22:00 (Ref:135855)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
But Muller has never raced in F1, only tested. I do believe he's tested at Sauber often.

Muller was Arrows test driver in 1997.

And welcome to the boards, Billie Joe.

nameless · 26 Aug 2001, 20:10 (Ref:136134)

Perry McCarthy (Andrea Moda - 1992) didnt really get a chance at F1 but had promise.

**Stephen Green** · 26 Aug 2001, 20:42 (Ref:136144)

Welcome Billie Joe, where abouts do you come from? I'm from a rather wet and humid England.

jiggly_puff · 26 Aug 2001, 20:45 (Ref:136145)

and funnily enough........perry mccarthy was marc hynes manager! might still be!!!!

I Ate Yoko Ono · 27 Aug 2001, 21:00 (Ref:136700)

The greatest driver in recent years never to make it to Formula 1 surely has to be Allan McNish (blew away Mikas Hakkinen and Salo in the 1989 British F3 ch'shp).

Very, VERY quick driver, hope the Toyota deal works out for him.

Funnily enough, he's outpacing Mika Salo at the moment testing for Toyota.

fast95pony · 27 Aug 2001, 23:53 (Ref:136815)

I'd like to add another name : Greg Moore. He raced in CART. Became the youngest driver to win a race. He was a fun-loving quiet,determined driver.He was liked by race fan fans and by his peers.He was a very talented driver and a genuine person.
He was tragically killed last year while racing.

I would have loved to have watched him in F1.

R.I.P. Greg

Alan

Faster · 28 Aug 2001, 16:12 (Ref:137114)

Gil de Ferran was a man that Formula 1 missed (but I wouldn't say that he missed F1, because he seems very happy with his succesful career in the USA).

Fast, inteligent, and very good in setting up a car. Would have made a great impact in F1...

Billie Joe · 28 Aug 2001, 17:17 (Ref:137132)

Stephen, Im also from England. Devon to be exact.

**Stephen Green** · 28 Aug 2001, 21:03 (Ref:137249)

Just a little bit far from me. I'm in Kent, close to Royal Tunbridge Wells. Good to chat to you though!!!

Mekola · 28 Aug 2001, 23:06 (Ref:137332)

About Argentinian drivers, there are some what never raced in F1 or they raced only few times in the Argentinian GP.

The case of Juan Manuel Bordeu (named before in this thread) is one of these, he had success in his 1959 year of F.Junior and was almost to debut in F1 but an accident in Goodwood skipped his F1 chances (later he was the champion of Turismo Carretera in 1966).

Other is the biggest local rival of Juan Manuel Fangio: Oscar Alfredo Galvez. He run in a private Alfa Romeo during the argentinian summer Temporadas in late 40s and early 50s, being a good contender against European drivers. He made a solely entry in F1 (driving a Maserati in the 1953 Argentinian GP, finishing 5th), but he constructed his fame in the Turismo Carretera where he and his brother Juan were the mens to beat during the decade of 50s (despite 1959, Oscar and Juan Gálvez won all the TC championships during the period 1947-61).

Other driver who had talent and failed to enter in the F1 world in the 60s was Nasif Estéfano. He only raced an old Maserati 250F in the 1960 Argentinian GP and tried to race with De Tomaso in 1962. He had success in the Mecanica Nacional F1(the Argentinian monoposto formula), in the SP and in the Turismo Carretera, where he won the championship 1973 posthumously (he was killed in an accident during one race that year).

Coming more to modern days, another Argentinian talent who had the talent to enter in the F1 is Gabriel Furlan. Multiple Southamerican F3 champion, he went to Europe racing in F3 and F3000 during early 90s, but he hadn't the support of the drivers who went to Europe after him. John Della Penna allowed him to test his CART car. Now he has his F3 team (GF Motorsport) and races in the TC2000 with Mitsubishi.

**ghinzani** · 3 Sep 2001, 22:16 (Ref:140849)

Argentine drivers? definately Furlan and Giullermo Maldonada. Also Luciano Crespi - he was better tha Tuero in kartin and Formula Renault. Does anyone know if Crespi Competition has a website or e-mail address?

As to other drivers who never made it - well Thackwell should have been given a decent chance - I saw him in a Sauber Grp C car once and he was awesome. Of the others mentioned - for sure the Ferte brothers and Apicella. Can I add Richard Dallest, Didier Artzet, Dave Coyne (Tracey KY jelly job tho), Bert Fabi, Ross Cheever, Andy Wallace, Tim Davies, Cor Euser, Elton Julian - this list couild go on and on... ghlad to see Mcnish there though cos he was special. TL-D never was of that calibre though - he won a BBC competition didnt he but I think sportscars was about where he should have been - Calvin Fish, Mark Peters, Coyne and Davies where better bets from that era.

f1manoz · 4 Sep 2001, 10:24 (Ref:141044)

Quote:

Originally posted by Faster
Gil de Ferran was a man that Formula 1 missed (but I wouldn't say that he missed F1, because he seems very happy with his succesful career in the USA).

Fast, inteligent, and very good in setting up a car. Would have made a great impact in F1...

Agreed.

And he is also an incredibly nice guy. Rarely has a bad word to say about anyone. A real gentleman. I'd call him the Hakkinen of CART (except about set-up which isn't Mika's forte!)

Invincible · 4 Sep 2001, 14:59 (Ref:141176)

Quote:

Originally posted by ghinzani
Bert Fabi

He wasn't related to Teo was he?, sadly all I know about him was that he was tragically killed in F3 testing at Silverstone, a tragic loss and he could have been a top F1 driver like his supposed relative

But I think Ian Flux deserves a mention, he raced alongside Nigel Mansell and Derek Warwick but never really got regocnised and also Kurt Luby as stated in BTCC he always beat david Coulthard when he raced against him, Class!

**ghinzani** · 4 Sep 2001, 15:48 (Ref:141188)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Invincible
[B]

"He wasn't related to Teo was he?, sadly all I know about him was that he was tragically killed in F3 testing at Silverstone, a tragic loss and he could have been a top F1 driver like his supposed relative"

No Teos brother was Corrado Fabi who I think won or finished second in the 1982 Euro F2 championship and then went on to drive f1 in 83 for Osella alongside Piercarlo and then subbed for his brother Teo in 84 at Brabham when Teo was busy driving Forsythes Indycar - he retired at the end of the year to run the family Talcum powder mine after the death of their father, although he did pop up at the wheel of a Genoa F3000 March in 1987 alongside Grego Foitek but it was not a fruitful association, I dont even think he qualified.

Bertrand Fabi was a Canadian who won the british ff2000 championship in 1985 after a major battle (I cant remmeber who with - its on the tip of my tongue but I cant remember!!) and was then due to drive with Dick Bennets WSR team in F3 in 86. As reigning champions with Gugelmin he would have given Andy Wallace and Maurizio Sala a real run for there money. Sadly he died testing at Thruxton before the season got underway and WSR pulled out of F3 and went to F3000 with Gugelmin in a JPS March, which proved fruitless also. For some reason I have this feeling that Damon Hill was due to be Bertrands team mate at WSR that season, but I may be mistaken.

If we are talking about drivers who got to F1 and then had their talent watsed - well Germany should have had world champs before Schuremuker - Bernd Schneider was pretty good until he got into that Zakspeed fiasco, and has subsequently proved pretty good for Merc I think you will agree - but the best of all - Stefan Bellof... he would definately have been a world champ if he hadnt made an error at Spa which he didnt survive.

TimD · 4 Sep 2001, 16:46 (Ref:141210)

Ghinzani - I think Tim Lee-Davey earned respect for a bit more than winning a BBC trophy...

But that's neither here nor there. You rated Dave Coyne? "Basher" Coyne? The Mr Rallycross of Formula Ford?

Dearie me....

Good call about Crespi though.

**ghinzani** · 4 Sep 2001, 18:03 (Ref:141241)

I was just remarking that he had won a BBC competiton to find a driver, but he also won the Dunlop Star of 2moro so he must have been good - however I also think that those self bbq-ing Tigas, and then his Porsche efforts probably suited his background etc he used to partner the wealthy Swiss Neil Crang didnt he? I always thought TL-D's team fitted in with that gentleman racer scene, like Steve O'Rourkes team, or Ray Bellm or Richard Cleare.

I also know Coyne was a thug but he also was pretty quick with GJ when he was in f3000, shame Eddie Jordan never ran him in 91 at Spa as was once runored! In fact Coyne was quick in everything, but I dont think he had the application or svelteness required. What does he do now? He could have carved himself a nice niche like a modern day Gerry Marshall, Whizzo or Tony Lanfrianchi.

Crespi was good, the Swiss team Jenzer really rated him, shame he ran outa dough! He was a nice guy too, mad as a fish!

**Stephen Green** · 4 Sep 2001, 18:12 (Ref:141248)

I think Coyne's problem was that he had a bit of an attitude which didn't go down well with sponsors. I remember watching him win the Formula Ford Festival at Brands many years ago, weaving away down bottom straight to stop the guy who was tight on his tail from passing. He was lucky not to get a penalty in my opinion!

paulzinho · 4 Sep 2001, 20:57 (Ref:141364)

OK then my Dad BEAT Dave Coyne in the star of tommorrow championship.

He was subsequently offered a works van diemen drive but tried to graduate to F3 with sponsorship which fell through.

When I asked him how far he could have got he said F1 or at least an accomplished sportscar driver.

As for gentleman racer he didn't have anyone off but one Brian Jones may recall something like 25 lead changes in the last 5 laps of a formula ford race at brands with TLD and Coyne with interlocked wheels around Hawthorns before the run off area.

Also a severe lack of funds curtailed his sportscar career and when you're 1.5 seconds off the pace because you're using the frontrunners old tyres then it can be demoralising but he kept plugging away until the money ran out. 1989 was a great year for Team Davey at Le Mans!!!

As for the bbqing Tigas check this out:

http://wspr.multimania.com/photoswscc/br8820.jpg

PS does anyone know where i can get pictures of Tim Lee Davey and his cars. Results too would be helpful. I've got Le Mans but after that i'm struggling.

**Stephen Green** · 4 Sep 2001, 21:07 (Ref:141373)

Paul, have you tried e-mailing the BRSCC to see if they have any in their archives?

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