F1: 22 equal cars, no sponsors perks, who should drive

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'm not sure stock car drives could cut it in F1, but Tony Stewart sure had fun in Hamilton's McLaren. Personally I'd give them a private test in a GP2 car to see if they're up for it, if this ever happens. And, of course, that would have to be permitted and everything...

...why did the FIA clamp down on testing?

[m355y]

Originally Posted by Beryl

I'd say it's insane to leave out Massa and Webber and have all of Valsecchi, Kobayashi, Sutil, Di Resta and Glock.

Don't think it's insane, harsh maybe. Both nearing he end of their careers, one definitely not on the grid next season, one might be. Valsecchi = GP2 champion. Kobayashi should never have lost his drive last season. Sutil has been doing well, Di Resta ditto and Glock was a hugely underrated driver throughout his F1 career.

Casey Stoner is a good shout.

[PepsiVodka]

Originally Posted by m355y

Don't think it's insane, harsh maybe. Both nearing he end of their careers, one definitely not on the grid next season, one might be. Valsecchi = GP2 champion. Kobayashi should never have lost his drive last season. Sutil has been doing well, Di Resta ditto and Glock was a hugely underrated driver throughout his F1 career.

Casey Stoner is a good shout.

It is harsh to leave out Massa and Webber and in their place should be Glock and Sutil if both were to leave.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

I think Loeb could shine in every car you put him in.

ptclaus98 mentioned Lorenzo, not that this is very relevant, but in the last Race of Champions event he was awfull to watch. If a had to pick a bike rider it would be Stoner, or Rossi who did very well on his GT Ferrari in Monza last year. But I think they neither of the three is even close to what other drivers listed can do.


What about Kyle Bush ? Don't often watch NASCAR but he seems to me the more talented driver over there. [knows he is hated, opens umbrella just in case]

If you were looking for a NASCAR driver, Jimmie Johnson would have to be the go to man.

Would love to see Tony Stewart dealing with the F1 media though!

Seb Loeb is still the one I want to see most though.

Of the bike guys, it would have to be Stoner.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by wnut

If you were looking for a NASCAR driver, Jimmie Johnson would have to be the go to man.

Would love to see Tony Stewart dealing with the F1 media though!

Seb Loeb is still the one I want to see most though.

Of the bike guys, it would have to be Stoner.

Yes JJ is very good, but for some reason Kyle impressed me more the few races I watched, can't say why tho.
But I watch very little NASCAR so can't give a real opinion, just a feeling.

I agree with Loeb too, of the non openwheel drivers he's the one I'd choose for a test

[wnut]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

Yes JJ is very good, but for some reason Kyle impressed me more the few races I watched, can't say why tho.
But I watch very little NASCAR so can't give a real opinion, just a feeling.

I agree with Loeb too, of the non openwheel drivers he's the one I'd choose for a test

I agree Kyle always seems to be there or there about, he'd be the second choice!

[ptclaus98]

I picked JJ because he seems to be a very intelligent driver on track and off it and could probably pick it up quickly, but I think both Busch brothers could cut it in F1, too. Kurt because he's had experience in open wheelers and did well in them, as well as driving for Penske. Kyle because he has the mentality for it. I couldn't see any other NASCAR drivers being a good fit.

[darcym]

some very interesting lists being published,

nice to see the forgotten Jaguar boys of Courtney and Lotterer appearing on a list.

Very eye opening on some other drivers I'd not considered.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I'd say Tony Stewart could do it, the former Indycar champ.

[Beryl]

I think most of the grid would be filled with F1 drivers and former/future F1 drivers.

I think only Loeb and Ogier have the talent to make the transition from rally to F1. Loeb is too old, so that leaves only Ogier for me.

From two wheels, Stoner maybe but he would need to prove himself. Rossi is too old to start a transition to F1 now. There was a chance before, but it's gone now.

From NASCAR, Jimmie Johnson surely has the talent (though he is 37). Kyle Busch and Hamlin have impressed me with their talent in Nascar as well, so maybe them too.

From prototypes, Audi's best drivers are Duval and Lotterer, but they were soundly beaten by Nakajima in Super Formula last year, so there would be some hesitation. Toyota's drivers are all (bar Lapierre) ex-F1 pilots. Best of the rest for me is Heidfeld, and he's an ex-F1 driver as well.

From GT, the best driver is Maxime Martin. I guess in this hypothetical world he would deserve a shot.

From other senior level single-seaters, I don't think anyone quite has the talent to be more than a below average F1 driver. The best Indycar driver on road courses is Will Power, right? Will Power didn't impress all that much in FR3.5, 7th place in a field that retrospectively yielded only Kubica as a top single-seater driver. I wouldn't take any driver from Super Formula either.

In any case, it's hard to judge how drivers from other racing disciplines can do in F1. It's hard enough to properly evaluate prospective drivers from lower formula, nevermind completely different disciplines.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Beryl

In any case, it's hard to judge how drivers from other racing disciplines can do in F1. It's hard enough to properly evaluate prospective drivers from lower formula, nevermind completely different disciplines.

Especially when you factor in the team's ability to field a competitive car, and the year to year variations that occur within teams ...

Sometimes even difficult to compare team mates in F1!

[Gingers4Justice]

Surprised Lotterer and Duval have only come up once or twice, but those two are standouts in LMP1 cars.

It's not always easy to judge these things. Being quick in F1 doesn't even make you a quick all round racing driver. No one would scoff at the pace of Fisi in F1 but he struggled in a GT car at first, and the DTM has a rich history of F1 drivers who were not automatic podium finishers in tin-tops.

That said, there are one of two drivers in F1 who couldn't hold a candle to some of the drivers in DTM, IndyCar, LMP1, even LMP2 and GTE Pro. And that's before you get into the traditional single seater ladder.

I don't know enough about all the world's professional drivers to single out 22, but be rest assured, it is still the case that in the front running teams, the drivers have their seats with good reason. What happens at the rear is less of a concern for me. As it were.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Beryl

I think most of the grid would be filled with F1 drivers and former/future F1 drivers.

I think only Loeb and Ogier have the talent to make the transition from rally to F1. Loeb is too old, so that leaves only Ogier for me.

From two wheels, Stoner maybe but he would need to prove himself. Rossi is too old to start a transition to F1 now. There was a chance before, but it's gone now.

From NASCAR, Jimmie Johnson surely has the talent (though he is 37). Kyle Busch and Hamlin have impressed me with their talent in Nascar as well, so maybe them too.

From prototypes, Audi's best drivers are Duval and Lotterer, but they were soundly beaten by Nakajima in Super Formula last year, so there would be some hesitation. Toyota's drivers are all (bar Lapierre) ex-F1 pilots. Best of the rest for me is Heidfeld, and he's an ex-F1 driver as well.

From GT, the best driver is Maxime Martin. I guess in this hypothetical world he would deserve a shot.

From other senior level single-seaters, I don't think anyone quite has the talent to be more than a below average F1 driver. The best Indycar driver on road courses is Will Power, right? Will Power didn't impress all that much in FR3.5, 7th place in a field that retrospectively yielded only Kubica as a top single-seater driver. I wouldn't take any driver from Super Formula either.

In any case, it's hard to judge how drivers from other racing disciplines can do in F1. It's hard enough to properly evaluate prospective drivers from lower formula, nevermind completely different disciplines.

Wrong. He got in a groove driving for Penske in the old Dallara that had almost 10 years of development put into it. Dixon is quicker and also smarter and there are other drivers that I would have on road and street courses.

It is hard to judge how they will do based on results but when you take the results, the demeanor on and off track, and the adaptability the picture is painted somewhat, IMO. Just to beat up on Power some more, when you take a look at his resume it is tempting to consider him, but then you take a look at how he deals with adversity and pressure there is a huge red flag there. Compare that to a Kimi Raikkonen who performs brilliantly to finish off a world champion year, or last year with Vettel and the RB8 which had some growing to do when McLaren and Mercedes had the better package initially. He didn't panic, which most expected him to do, he just ate away at the points lead despite Alonso putting on mind games, and then he delivered late in the season when Ferrari and Alonso started making missteps.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

A pre-accident Johnny Herbert anyday guys...

...I still think that Christian Montanari in a one-off Monaco appearance.

And as for it being hard to judge drivers' talent if they're racing in completely different series to each other, check out Steve Soper. He outpaced Nelson Piquet, Robert Ravaglia and Marc Duez among others in McLaren's F1 GTR programme, but never raced a single-seater in his life.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Wrong. He got in a groove driving for Penske in the old Dallara that had almost 10 years of development put into it. Dixon is quicker and also smarter and there are other drivers that I would have on road and street courses.

Thanks for the correction. I assumed Power was best because he had both the most poles and wins in each of the last 3 seasons on non-oval courses: 2010, 2011 and 2012 (with the new car). I only watch Indycar races very occasionally, so I wasn't sure.

Do you think Dixon would do better than Zanardi or Bourdais in F1?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Beryl

Thanks for the correction. I assumed Power was best because he had both the most poles and wins in each of the last 3 seasons on non-oval courses: 2010, 2011 and 2012 (with the new car). I only watch Indycar races very occasionally, so I wasn't sure.

Do you think Dixon would do better than Zanardi or Bourdais in F1?

Maybe better than Zanardi or Bourdais but a winner? Probably not now. Back when he did a test in the Williams he was good enough to be a regular in F1 but I think he's smart enough to know where he can make things work for him.
Most disciplines in motor racing are so specialised now you cant get drivers to cross over well right off the bat and once they get out of the F1 rat ladder in the lower formula its hard to come back again.
Yes Kimi did it because he was already a WDC and Prost and Lauda had lots of motivation but people on the way up usually struggle.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Beryl

Thanks for the correction. I assumed Power was best because he had both the most poles and wins in each of the last 3 seasons on non-oval courses: 2010, 2011 and 2012 (with the new car). I only watch Indycar races very occasionally, so I wasn't sure.

Do you think Dixon would do better than Zanardi or Bourdais in F1?

It depends on the team, always. I don't think that those guys got a fair shake in F1, Bourdais especially.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

It depends on the team, always. I don't think that those guys got a fair shake in F1, Bourdais especially.

That is a problem when you are teamed with one of the all time greats in his first season.

Nobody knows how good he actually is, and you look horrible!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by wnut

That is a problem when you are teamed with one of the all time greats in his first season.

Nobody knows how good he actually is, and you look horrible!

That reminds me of the Hulkenberg/Gutierrez pairing right now. Hulkenberg has the speed of Alonso and Hamilton, and will outperform the car. Considering he only has 7 points, Gutierrez must be doing okay, although his driving pre-Spain was bad. We just don't know.

And as far Zanardi, he came into F1 before he reached his prime. Scott Dixon imo would put in Mark Webber-ish results.

[Mekola]

Wonder why Jose Maria Lopez isn't in this list. He is still one of the best Argentine racers, as you could see this weekend in WTCC.

[darcym]

possibly because one of the best Argentinian racers doesn't stack up well against the best racers in the world ?

[Salamus]

How about Robert Wickens and Bruno Spengler? Spengler has been one of the best DTM drivers for a while now, I'd like to see him in a Formula One car. Wickens was FR3.5 champion with Carlin and he is steadily improving in DTM.

[Razzzor]

1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Lewis Hamilton
4. Kimi Räikkönen
5. Robert Kubica (assuming he can compete)
6. Jenson Button
7. Mark Webber
8. Nico Hülkenberg
9. Nico Rosberg
10. Romain Grosjean
11. Paul di Resta
12. Sergio Perez
13. Heikki Kovalainen
14. Jules Bianchi

The Indycar stars
15. Scott Dixon
16. Ryan Hunter-Reay
17. Will Power
18. Dario Franchitti (assuming he's not over the hill)
19. Sebastien Bourdais

and maybe a few other series for the final few, just for the hell of it, and assuming they came up the single seater ranks rather than their current experience in tin tops:
20. Sebastian Loeb, a few years ago though, he's past it now (so maybe Ogier instead)
21. Jamie Whincup
22. Jimmie Johnson
23. oops Yvan Muller

[Icarus_nz]

This is an easy game to play. 22 drivers out of the gerzillion hopeful?
The answer is the ones that bring the most money. And a fresh one each week.
If you take the sponsors interests out of the picture its all raw me, me, me.

MONEYsport and don't let your rose tinted glasses fool you into thinking anything else

[Adam43]