[Official] Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2024: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 2 of 24

[bjohnsonsmith]

Stroll into the barrier, FCY. He clipped the wall with his front left.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Stroll into the barrier, FCY. He clipped the wall with his front left.

Time to go….

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Time to go….

Second time this weekend.

[Richard C]

Stroll pretty sassy on the radio.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

5 sec. penalty for Perez; unsafe release.

[broadrun96]

Can the stewards make up their minds what section they're using? 5 seconds for unsafe release and 10 seconds for KMags but Norris is out of the box at the start but no, that's fine. Absolutely random joke nonsense. And Albon that's on you as much as Kevin cause you were not, and did not, make the corner not defending earlier

Hope Lewis gets 10 seconds for shoving Piastri wide with contact there. But it appears Sky thinks that's all Piastri but he was ahead and could have made the left without a car in the way

[broadrun96]

Why don't they just take KMags SuperLicense if they have to find bs regs to call on him but no one else to make sure he's last running car. We get it FIA, you hate all things slightly American after Andretti comments and Gene calling y'all idiots. But it's becoming a joke and your standards and stewards are just pulling things from their lower vent as "rules"

Haas might as well retire the car since they're doomed to last place and save the engine


Penalty was a complete and total effing JOKE they're doing that with 2 or 3 off all damn race. And Tsunoda needs to shut his pie hole about that. Dude does that constantly, see his penalty history


Lewis stayed inside in the front stretch and then went ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT at T1. What the fk is that? That's a penalty EVERY DAMN TIME. Stewards and FIA are turning in to pathetic losers

And no, I want NEITHER called as penalty, let them race and deal with contact with penalties. This you've offended my honor is a joke

[bjohnsonsmith]

Piastri messed that up.

[broadrun96]

I WOULD actually be behind an ******* penalty for Haas as a team. I don't like the we're gonna be slow by design to hold everyone up. Want to talk unsportsmanlike things, that's bs. And the celebration of it is pathetic. It's not racing, it's blocking.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Verstappen, as the Red Bull juggernaut continues but what a great debut drive from Bearman.

[Richard C]

Great debut for Bearman. Perez doing what he needs to do. Yuki continues to outpace Daniel. Daniel looked lost all weekend.

Richard

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Stroll pretty sassy on the radio.

Richard

Sassy , entitled or just plain rude? Pretty daft comment from the engineer though to be fair!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Why don't they just take KMags SuperLicense if they have to find bs regs to call on him but no one else to make sure he's last running car. We get it FIA, you hate all things slightly American after Andretti comments and Gene calling y'all idiots. But it's becoming a joke and your standards and stewards are just pulling things from their lower vent as "rules"

Haas might as well retire the car since they're doomed to last place and save the engine

Love your passion mate but if the FIA was REALLY down on anything slightly American then Logan Sargeant would be in the cross hairs every weekend and I doubt we'd have 3 x GPs in the US. In any case, the FIA approved Andretti, it was FOM that did not.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I WOULD actually be behind an ******* penalty for Haas as a team. I don't like the we're gonna be slow by design to hold everyone up. Want to talk unsportsmanlike things, that's bs. And the celebration of it is pathetic. It's not racing, it's blocking.

It's an established part of racing, has been for many, many years in all kinds of series worldwide. I actually gave Haas "Team of the Race" for their operation in the race to take a pure team approach, particular once KMag's penalties made him a wildcard out of effective position - was smart thinking and well-executed.

[BTCC frog]

This may sound harsh, but my takeaway from the Ollie Bearman debut is that Formula 1 drivers are simply too close to the limit now. It has become too easy. On Bearman’s Formula 1 debut, he finished just 24 seconds behind Charles Leclerc, who is widely considered to be one of the best in the business. So if peak Bearman is as good as peak Leclerc, then there is only 24 seconds to be gained from your first ever race in a Formula 1 car, on one of the most difficult tracks on the calendar, with just one hour of preparation before the race. And that is assuming Bearman will be as good as Leclerc, which is doubtful as his junior record is good but not on Leclerc’s level, and I would suggest that it could be more like 12-15 seconds. It seems to me like there should be more room for improvement than that. You might suggest that Bearman is just an incredibly fast learner, but we have seen it a few times in recent years. Liam Lawson was almost on Tsunoda’s pace immediately and was highly praised, yet he wasn’t considered worth a full season in the Toro Rosso for 2024. Nyck de Vries destroyed Nicholas Latifi on his debut and then was well-beaten by Tsunoda the next year. Logan Sargeant’s first race in Bahrain was the closest he has ever got to Alex Albon. Those were all on easier tracks than Jeddah, admittedly.

I do think Oliver Bearman was very impressive today considering it is such a difficult track, and he is definitely worthy of a Haas seat in 2025, or even later this year as Kevin Magnussen, brilliant as he was today at being a team player, just doesn’t seem good enough anymore (and he is another one who peaked on his debut). But unless Bearman turns out to be another Verstappen-level talent, he should not be getting that close to Leclerc on his debut with that level of preparation. I think the cars need to be made far more difficult to drive, and it should be an achievement to get to the end without a spin, while the gaps between a perfect lap and an average one need to be much greater. Maybe telemetry and simulators could be banned as well to further this. And mistakes on track need to be punished more like they were in Jeddah with Stroll’s crash. In Bahrain, the most costly mistake anyone made was to lock up and lose a couple of tenths on the runoff, and they almost perfectly sorted themselves out into the order of the car speeds, bar those who had something happen in the race, despite the current cars being closer to each other on performance than ever before.

[Greem]

That's the same Bearman who managed to not hit anybody (like several others did), didn't spin (Ricciardo), didn't clip an inside wall and end up "in the f***ing wall" (Stroll), managed the hybrid system, didn't murder his tyres, didn't screw up the SC restart, overtook people, didn't break the car, finished in the points, drove further and faster than he'd ever done before...

...and all on one of the toughest circuits F1 races on in terms of forgiveness (it has none) and cornering. He'll have a stiff neck tomorrow.

But yep, F1 cars are too easy to drive.

Or, y'know, maybe he really is just that good?

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Greem

That's the same Bearman who managed to not hit anybody (like several others did), didn't spin (Ricciardo), didn't clip an inside wall and end up "in the f***ing wall" (Stroll), managed the hybrid system, didn't murder his tyres, didn't screw up the SC restart, overtook people, didn't break the car, finished in the points, drove further and faster than he'd ever done before...

...and all on one of the toughest circuits F1 races on in terms of forgiveness (it has none) and cornering. He'll have a stiff neck tomorrow.

But yep, F1 cars are too easy to drive.

Or, y'know, maybe he really is just that good?

I agree he looked like a totally accomplished F1 driver despite having just one hour of preparation, which seems extraordinary. But my point is that a performance like that is only something you would expect only from someone who would go on to be a generational talent, which may be the case with Bearman but seems unlikely based on his junior record, and in the last two years we have seen similarly extraordinary debuts from De Vries and Lawson under similar circumstances, and so it is becoming a trend. I think Bearman absolutely deserves a drive at Haas next year at the latest, but I don’t think he would destroy Hulkenberg in the way that someone with a debut like that might be expected to, as was the case with De Vries in the Alpha Tauri.

I am suggesting that, however good Bearman is, I would just like for the difference between a driver at their peak and that same driver with just one hour of preparation in an F1 car to be more than 24 seconds over a full race distance, and don’t believe that it was an unusual feat of immediate form that Bearman achieved by managing that as De Vries and Lawson were similar.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

This may sound harsh, but my takeaway from the Ollie Bearman debut is that Formula 1 drivers are simply too close to the limit now. It has become too easy. On Bearman’s Formula 1 debut, he finished just 24 seconds behind Charles Leclerc, who is widely considered to be one of the best in the business. So if peak Bearman is as good as peak Leclerc, then there is only 24 seconds to be gained from your first ever race in a Formula 1 car, on one of the most difficult tracks on the calendar, with just one hour of preparation before the race. And that is assuming Bearman will be as good as Leclerc, which is doubtful as his junior record is good but not on Leclerc’s level, and I would suggest that it could be more like 12-15 seconds. It seems to me like there should be more room for improvement than that. You might suggest that Bearman is just an incredibly fast learner, but we have seen it a few times in recent years. Liam Lawson was almost on Tsunoda’s pace immediately and was highly praised, yet he wasn’t considered worth a full season in the Toro Rosso for 2024. Nyck de Vries destroyed Nicholas Latifi on his debut and then was well-beaten by Tsunoda the next year. Logan Sargeant’s first race in Bahrain was the closest he has ever got to Alex Albon. Those were all on easier tracks than Jeddah, admittedly.

I do think Oliver Bearman was very impressive today considering it is such a difficult track, and he is definitely worthy of a Haas seat in 2025, or even later this year as Kevin Magnussen, brilliant as he was today at being a team player, just doesn’t seem good enough anymore (and he is another one who peaked on his debut). But unless Bearman turns out to be another Verstappen-level talent, he should not be getting that close to Leclerc on his debut with that level of preparation. I think the cars need to be made far more difficult to drive, and it should be an achievement to get to the end without a spin, while the gaps between a perfect lap and an average one need to be much greater. Maybe telemetry and simulators could be banned as well to further this. And mistakes on track need to be punished more like they were in Jeddah with Stroll’s crash. In Bahrain, the most costly mistake anyone made was to lock up and lose a couple of tenths on the runoff, and they almost perfectly sorted themselves out into the order of the car speeds, bar those who had something happen in the race, despite the current cars being closer to each other on performance than ever before.

I understand your point, but I was actually really impressed with a driver who has spent hours on an F1 simulator.

He knew what he was doing. If you heard Fred on his interview about Bearman before his practice debut, then Fred wouldn't have put him in the car if they didn't have confidence in him.

There have been super talents before. Jody Schecter is one such talent who jumped out of F3 into F2 and F5000 and was easily on a par with seasoned F5000 drivers then into F1 where he was easily highly competent.

Would he have been at that level with a manual gear change etc. Who knows?
However, his F2 pole was an outstanding performance, and he has the goods.

The most interesting thing is he jumped into a top car.
There is clearly a pecking order in machinery.
The differences are not huge, but to be racing in the company of Norris and Hamilton, who finished behind him, isn't a reflection on Bearman, as much as it is on F1 and the convoluted way this particular set of rules has been evolved.
While it appears Max is head and shoulders above the rest of the field, just how true is that?

And what opportunity is there for Bearman?
Leclerc and Hamilton have those seats on long term Ferrari contracts, and at what cost?
If you could have Bearman at 5 million for 2025, why would I spend 15 or 20 times that on Lewis?

And the differences between drivers are probably much finer at this level than most people realize.
It is clear that the Haas is not the worst car in the field in 2024'
The Haas is better, or certainly as good as, over a race distance, as an RB, Sauber, or Alpine.

[peebee2]

Bearman impressed absolutely but speak to pretty much any new F1 driver from the last 20 years and they will tell you that an F1 is the easiest car to drive they’ve experienced in their whole careers.

[P38 in workshop]

I think some credit has to go to Sainz and his engineer for setting up the car quite well and enabling Bearman to look at home in such a short time.He looked like he belongs on the grid,but then so did De Vries and Lawson and the current small grid doesn't make arrival of a new driver easy.There are one or two out there who are retaining their seats at the expense of such potential new arrivals.I thought the cost controls and the greater amount of money awarded by Liberty Media would have made it easier to get rid of the drivers who don't really reach the high standard needed and who are there due to commercial connections.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

And what opportunity is there for Bearman?
Leclerc and Hamilton have those seats on long term Ferrari contracts, and at what cost?
If you could have Bearman at 5 million for 2025, why would I spend 15 or 20 times that on Lewis?

I do not see LH as a long termer at Ferrari, in fat if he can not get close to CL next year he will most probably walk away into retirement by mid season. A 40 year old driver is not looking to the future but yesterday was, I think Ollies future will be well sorted this week.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Greem

That's the same Bearman who managed to not hit anybody (like several others did), didn't spin (Ricciardo), didn't clip an inside wall and end up "in the f***ing wall" (Stroll), managed the hybrid system, didn't murder his tyres, didn't screw up the SC restart, overtook people, didn't break the car, finished in the points, drove further and faster than he'd ever done before...

...and all on one of the toughest circuits F1 races on in terms of forgiveness (it has none) and cornering. He'll have a stiff neck tomorrow.

But yep, F1 cars are too easy to drive.

Or, y'know, maybe he really is just that good?

Or just maybe, Leclerc isn't quite the motor racing Messiah that everyone thought he was.....

[Sandgroper]

can we keep the comments to 6 lines some of these essays are too much and need to be skipped over hahahahahah

As a Danny Ric fan, I think...................I will reserve my comments

Beaman impressive.

[TrapezeArtist]

Ollie Bearman's performance was so outstanding I can't find the words to describe it fully. So let me just say I am impressed.

Yes there have been a few impressive debuts in the past that flattered to deceive, but there have also been impressive debutants that turned out to be the real deal. I think Ollie could be the latter and for sure he is worthy of being placed in a decent seat for 2025.

[S griffin]

No doubt Ollie did a great job, however it's too early to say he's the real deal. Let's see how he goes for the rest of the F2 season to see how much he's learned from this experience

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Bearman impressed absolutely but speak to pretty much any new F1 driver from the last 20 years and they will tell you that an F1 is the easiest car to drive they’ve experienced in their whole careers.

If low downforce and no power steering makes a car hard to drive then Bearman has already been driving that in Formula 2? So why wouldn't Bearman be prepared?

I don't think the notion that Formula 2 and Indycars (about the same speed as F2) are harder to drive is necessarily correct, obviously the steering takes more physical effort but the cornering at 3.5G is also far more leisurely and less stimulating than at 5G.

The nature of Formula 1 is that cars are very under control, until such point they go over the limit where (with very wide tyres and very high downforce) they snap and end up backwards in the wall in almost unrecoverable way.

But you can see in wet races that the current F1 cars are more than capable of sliding around (and the drivers capable of sliding the cars around) in lower grip conditions.

Cars like the 2003 Minardi or 2004 Jordan were less sorted and had pretty terrible handling, yet some mediocre pay drivers still managed to keep them on the track for the most part -- so what does "hard to drive" prove anyway? [Not saying Pantano is necessarily mediocre, he was highly rated at one point!]

The cars at the front like the Ferrari and Williams-BMW being driven by the better drivers, were much better handling cars (not the best show case for the skills of the better drivers?) -- that's why those cars were at the front!!

Incidentally, that Minardi was one of the last Formula One cars without power steering. Eventually it got to the point where they "added" more downforce to it (with Toro Rosso's relabelled 2005 Jaguar) such that it did "need" power steering.