Barton, Andy - Page 2

Chris Townsend · 23 Mar 2006, 10:38 (Ref:1558270)

I've recently received a programme from an Atlantic meeting in 1979
at which Andy B appeared in the March 77B. The plate was noted:
77B-3 and the programme note 'ex Ian Scheckter?'
Scheckter had two 77Bs in 1977; getting a new car after badly damaging
the first early in the season. As he carried a 77B as a spare car through 1978
I'd suggest that Barton bought the remains of the first car.
This would be the car that Binnie uses in the early 80s

Chris

Dan Rear · 23 Mar 2006, 10:55 (Ref:1558285)

Chris that makes sense, you didn't note the no. of Andy's 782/79B at all did you. He got this in early 79, and I've read that it may have been ex-Hoffman/Project 4. If so I've surmised it would be 782-14, any thoughts on this ?

allenbrown · 23 Mar 2006, 11:00 (Ref:1558292)

Chris

That's a result! Any more chassis numbers in that new collection of programs you got?

Allen

Andy Barton · 28 Nov 2006, 08:48 (Ref:1776427)

Andy Barton is retired now

allenbrown · 28 Nov 2006, 08:52 (Ref:1776428)

Welcome Andy!

Very brave of you to pop in

Tell us please, where did you get that 782 from?

Allen

Andy Barton · 28 Nov 2006, 09:00 (Ref:1776435)

I will get the old man to read the discussion and get back to you with the answer.
He doesn't do computers

allenbrown · 28 Nov 2006, 10:05 (Ref:1776477)

OK, who can quickly compile a list of questions for Andy Snr? We need to know where lots of cars came from and where lots of cars went to.

Dan Rear · 28 Nov 2006, 13:53 (Ref:1776660)

The 782 that he got early in 1979, was it built around an ex-Hoffman/P4 wreck? And of course the B35 and B40 he crashed in early 77 and 78 respectively?

allenbrown · 28 Nov 2006, 16:15 (Ref:1776743)

Of which the B40 may have been the B35 rebuilt and updated...

driftwood · 29 Nov 2006, 23:12 (Ref:1778164)

I heard a story that Andy Barton went to the pub next door to the garage after work and had a bucket filled with beer and he and the lads sat in the corner dipping their mugs into the pale of ale

When they came south to race the GT AC3000 car u needed a translator to understand what they Geordie lads where saying
even watching repeats of " When the boat comes in" or "the likely lads" was not enough

I believe the AC3000 802 car is still owned by cumming

rcarr · 30 Nov 2006, 00:05 (Ref:1778195)

David Smaill, from Glasgow bought the AC body from Ron Cumming.
My Dad got a call from Ron a few months ago wondering if we still owned the Stratos body and asked if David still had the AC body. He said something about wanting to buy them back for ...maybe a new series?

Ron was really ousted out by the SMRC when he brought his Footwork to race in the Formula Libre.

driftwood · 30 Nov 2006, 11:58 (Ref:1778524)

So your saying the ac body was sold off the march as was the silver startos march 832 car body?
i know Ron has the cars still
but i thought he raced the stratos in Mondello recently

Ron was not ousted from SMRC because he had the footwork-
he left scotland for "other" reasons !!!!!!

rcarr · 30 Nov 2006, 13:50 (Ref:1778626)

He did stop racing at Knockhill before he left Scotland because they kept on banning him coz they didnt like him hammering everyone else.

I have nothing against Ron, I like the guy!

We bought just the black "Custom Furniture" Stratos from Ron in 94' while he ran his March as an F2 car and his Footwork. We put a Tiga Sports 2000 under it,then in 01 or 02 we sold the entire package to Adrian Hamilton in Edinburgh.

He was going to turn the Tiga back into a S2000 car and sell the Stratos body onto David Smail and Eddie Beerman in Glasgow. Ron must've bought the Stratos body back off them!

Ron racing the Andy Barton AC 3000 with his March underneath quite recently in Ireland

driftwood · 30 Nov 2006, 14:04 (Ref:1778643)

We bought just the black "Custom Furniture" Stratos from Ron in 94' while he ran his March as an F2 car and his Footwork. We put a Tiga Sports 2000 under it,then in 01 or 02 we sold the entire package to Adrian Hamilton in Edinburgh. He had 2 March 832 cars 1 was with Mazda engine from down here ( now sold) he fitted M12 to it.
The other 832 car was under the stratos body as he now runs in Ireland- so did you buy the whole car or just the bodwork

I assume he still has the 802 Barton chassis- from what you say the AC3000 body was sold to a guy and never used

rcarr · 30 Nov 2006, 14:13 (Ref:1778652)

We just bought just the stratos body from Ron. He used to run the BMW engined F2 car underneath it.

This body:

David Smail ran the AC body with a completely different chassis with a Cosworth YB engine. It was ridiculously slow.

Andy Barton · 30 Nov 2006, 22:13 (Ref:1779074)

Well Gents it sure is nice to see the old man's AC is still doing the rounds, I'll post a pic of it at Brands when I get back from my current business trip.
He won at brands on his only outing, that was even after it was dunched in the door by a BMW.
What I can tell you about the Chevron B40 was that it was the B35 with a few bits B40 bits. Dad wanted to re-build it completely as a B40 after he crashed it but the B40 suspension etc. was not available to him at the time.
Dad hated the B35, said the handling was crap...that's why Chevron quickly brought out the B40.
Oh...and as regards the comment regarding mini's...posted about 2 years ago...it said dad was out for 2yrs after a huge crash...actually he was out for 2 weeks...he wasn't known as the irron man for nowt!
Also, for info, on some occasions..after a heavy drinking session, dad used to have one of his pit crew run out to the car on the starting grid with a bucket so he could pretend to barf in it....used to really un-nerve the opposition

driftwood · 30 Nov 2006, 22:34 (Ref:1779093)

I also heard he had been in the army or rumour was french foreign legion

so how come Junior u didnt go racing?

Andy Barton · 2 Dec 2006, 03:53 (Ref:1779953)

Too young at the time...I do a bit of hillclimbing tho.

Andy Barton · 13 Dec 2006, 20:48 (Ref:1790090)

Ok, here is some feedback in order of the posting #’s, its not comprehensive but I can clarify on stuff after if needs be.
#3 Mackmot – Who is your dad, my dad isn’t sure who he is.
#5 The last mini, crashed at Croft took 6wks to rebuilt with new shell, suspension & all new F2 Cosworth SCA engine with mini gearbox!!! (Did anyone do this earlier I ask?)
The JTB was 4-5” longer as we fitted the dry sump oil tank between the rear of the tub and the front of the BDA engine. The tub was modified to accept a much larger fuel bag tank (a-la Mclaren).
The Lotus moonraker was bought / ran by Johnny Blades, 69/71/5 chassis, David Muter sold it to a hillclimber, Don Bewick. The BDA was replaced with a Ford twin-cam 1600.
The car is now perfectly restored complete with BDG and is raced in historic events by Simon Hadfield, see link below.
The March 72B was Geoff Frisswells Southern Organs Car, I don’t recall the chassis number but I had 2 further March 72/3/4/5 tubs rebuilt as stock items as the tubs were almost identical and accidents (about 3 a year) did happen. Updated bodywork came from March stores archives a year behind the F2 cars.
#15 rcarr, The AC – The AC was sold to Bill Paul of the Dumbuck Hotel, he raced it for about 2 years then sold it to Ron Cumming.
#26 Chris – ref the ex Scheckter 77B; in early 1977 I received a phone call from Robin Herd of March Engineering to test drive a works March at Silverstone. I think this was due to having won the BARC Formula Libre championship. This was a great introduction to the March factory & staff…so when Scheckter’s car became available I was able to purchase it, just as he stepped out of it! I don’t remember the chassis No. but what always stuck in my memory was that he had a sticker in the cockpit that read “roads, we don’t need no stinkin roads”. The tub was damaged during it’s life with me and was rebuilt before being sold.
The 782 car was again a direct result of the March contacts, each works F2 driver had 3 “cars” all paid for by their sponsors, one race car, a spare car and a spare tub with parts. I was able to purchase a year old unused tub and all the suspension frames & uprights bodywork etc. but it had no chassis number. I also bought a crashed tub without chassis number and front & rear bulkheads etc. to build a 3rd tub as ground effects etc. were in their infancy when these cars were introduced. We gleaned any info we could from the works and developed this knowledge ourselves to make the 782 perform as well as if not better than the 792 ground effects cars.
#33 Dan, ref the B35, It was totalled at Ingliston and was rebuilt into a new B35 tub from Chevron as there were too many detailed changes to the B40. It was dressed in B40 bodywork though. It was then totalled again at Croft. I sold it crashed without the engine to (I think) Brian Swales from the Thirsk area. I think he rebuilt it.
This car was the worst car that I ever had the displeasure of driving. I think it had the incorrect steering rack fitted as the bump steer could never be set perfectly. Chevron were going through a bad patch at the time and were not a lot of help. I still have the workshop spares manual for the car

The cars tended to evolve, where a B was involved in the description it invairably stood for "Barton" and was the same tub as the previous one only a little more developed, there was always at least one other tub in the background ready to be built if needed. Dad has a pic somewhere of 3 almost identical cars of dads on the garage forecourt when Cameron & David drove them.

Here are links to photos of some of his his cars:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/TheTeam.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorRacing.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorEarly1960s.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MiniMarcos1966.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Mini-Inglistonlate1960s.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March782with792nose.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbs24/March75273Btubin1976byTonyTodd.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March79B782fromAutosportDec79.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March73Bconvertedto74BFromChronical.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69moonrakeratKnockhillJuly2006.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Early782OurWingsSkirtsMarchonthegri.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69in1974ByTonyTodd.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000beingswipedatBrands.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000Brands.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1981802WingsMarch.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1974Lotus69.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/782WingsSkirts.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarchbyBoothroyd.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/732BMarchex.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarch.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/77BWingswithoutgroundeffectsMarch.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston2.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/23-3-7977BexscheckterWingswithoutgr.jpg

I’ll put some more links on soon.

allenbrown · 13 Dec 2006, 21:01 (Ref:1790098)

Great stuff Andy. Thanks for this.

Could I ask a couple more things:
1. Where did the Chevron come from originally? Any idea who'd raced it before?
2. What was the story on the Sana, later known as the Barton JTB3? Was that an unused tub and parts or had it raced before?

Thanks

Allen

Cameron Winton · 15 Dec 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1791459)

Superb stuff. I missed very few meetings at ingliston 75-84 as a kid. Didn't see the B35 accident & didn't realise it was so big - Andy, did your dad lose it on the way into Arena or did something break?
Andy Barton was always the guy to plug for against the people with bigger cheque books such as Iain Mclaren & Norman Dickson
What happened to Cameron Binnie?

Andy Barton · 15 Dec 2006, 17:18 (Ref:1791572)

Nothing broke on the B35 it was just a poor handling car

Ref. the earlier questions on the Sana...I'll get back to you next week when dad returns from Spain (Menorca not Mallorca)
Ta!
Andy Jnr

Mackmot · 17 Dec 2006, 19:17 (Ref:1792991)

Andy my dad is Andy Mackie, he was just a young lad when he hung out with your dad. He went on to have a pretty successful career in motorsport. Take a look at www.mackiemotorsport.com

Thanks for the pictures i'll show them to my dad next week.

Andy Barton · 21 Dec 2006, 19:51 (Ref:1797045)

Allen,
The Sana was designed and built by John Thompson of TC Prototypes in Wellingborough. John used to build the ATS F1 and Mclaren cars, he also rebuilt many of dads crashed March tubs for him.
The Sana was bought from John, we don't think anyone raced it other than dad.
The B35 was bought from Chevron at the time when Ricardo Patrese and Keke Rosberg were racing for them...it was definately not one of their cars though, it belonged to one of their other drivers of the time.
Dad stated that although he hated the B35, Patrese was getting good results with one and so dad insists the steering rack was not the same on his.
I'll put some more photos online when I have the chance.
Any other questions gents?

Dan Rear · 22 Dec 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1797615)

Andy (Junior?), I think the Sana HAD been used before your Dad got it in mid-1977. There were 2 built for the 76 season for Graham Eden Racing, designed by Gordon Fowell IIRC.

Cyd Williams used 1 in Indylantic that year before falling out with Eden. The drive was then taken over by Terry Perkins, brother of Larry. The 2nd car was built as an F3, and very occasionally used as such by Terry.

The 1st car remained as an Atlantic and was burnt out in the fire that engulfed Eden's workshop in early 1977. The 2nd car was sold, and built into an Atlantic, to Cal Withers Team in mid-late 76, and driven by Cyd Williams and later David Winstanley that year. Its this car, I think, which your Dad bought.

He entered it initally as a Sana, and later as the Barton, from mid-77, until mid-78 I think, when he got the ex-Ian S March 77B. The Barton then passed to David Muter, who I guess was a mate/colleague of your Dad's.

I've no idea why the cars were originally called 'Sanas', equally why the car was later designated "JTB3"???

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