Rds 1-3: Brands Discussion - Page 2

**touringlegend** · 9 Apr 2006, 15:46 (Ref:1574622)

I think they did get round one more lap before the red flag but I presume that would then make Neal 2nd and Collard 3rd.

Tim Harvey reckoned Matt Neal braked early going in to Paddock and through no fault of his own Collard was at an unfortunate angle to the Integra.

Quite chuffed with 3 Seat wins in the first 3 rounds..

Piglet · 9 Apr 2006, 15:47 (Ref:1574623)

It's a countback to the last lap but the cars must be running under their own steam to be counted. As Matt was in the gravel trap at the time of the red sadly I think he won't be counted.

It didn't look like he lifted off to me.......

Alan Raine · 9 Apr 2006, 15:52 (Ref:1574625)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-C

Collard pretty much drove Neal off the circuit at Silverstone last year after a similar sort of move from Neal beforehand. This looked more of the same, the red mist descended and a bad accident ensued.

Frankly, it's the sort of thing that's been on the cards in the BTCC for a long time, and hopefully will spark a clampdown on driving standards, which have been atrocious in the last year or so.

I'm not surprised it happened although I'm not sure if it was done on purpose.
Neal can be as bad as the others at times so I don't think he has reason to complain.

Sooner or later someone is going to get hurt!

Super Hans · 9 Apr 2006, 16:06 (Ref:1574631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-C

Collard pretty much drove Neal off the circuit at Silverstone last year after a similar sort of move from Neal beforehand. This looked more of the same, the red mist descended and a bad accident ensued. If Collard retains his position I will be amazed.

I don't think either driver was to blame for the incident.

Matt Neal appeared to brake early for Paddock Hill bend which took Collard by surprise and led to slight contact between the pair.

The severity of the ensuing impact will no doubt cause an emotive response amongst spectators, but this really was just a simple racing incident in my book.

E46 · 9 Apr 2006, 16:55 (Ref:1574653)

I have just watched Neal´s crash and it is very hard, he could be badly injuried.

Hazard · 9 Apr 2006, 16:59 (Ref:1574656)

Looks like there's no 'official' result yet for race 3 yet. Hmmm.

**touringlegend** · 9 Apr 2006, 17:13 (Ref:1574669)

According to btcc.net Collard is provisionally 2nd and Turkington 3rd.

The TV said Matt Neal was OK but was taken to the medical centre for routine checks.

Knowlesy · 9 Apr 2006, 17:19 (Ref:1574673)

Three wins for Seat, mmmm...marvellous!

Vauxhall were absolutely shocking.

Knowlesy · 9 Apr 2006, 17:19 (Ref:1574676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E46

I have just watched Neal´s crash and it is very hard, he could be badly injuried.

I doubt he's badly injured.

Though it was quite unpleasant.

**John Turner** · 9 Apr 2006, 18:14 (Ref:1574703)

It's a little difficult to avoid the conclusion that Collard was miffed with the pass Neal had made on him at Clearways, which itself involved a bit of contact, even though Collard had left the door open. My first thought was that he felt this 'tap' into Paddock Hill bend was a 'tit for tat' response but I hope I am wrong since it was potentially a very nasty accident.

REALIST · 9 Apr 2006, 18:36 (Ref:1574717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

It's a little difficult to avoid the conclusion that Collard was miffed with the pass Neal had made on him at Clearways, which itself involved a bit of contact, even though Collard had left the door open. My first thought was that he felt this 'tap' into Paddock Hill bend was a 'tit for tat' response but I hope I am wrong since it was potentially a very nasty accident.

IMO it was cetainly that. Also IMO what Collard did was no worse than what Neal did to him moments before and what others had been doing all day. Unfortunately the result was far worse.

What needs to happen before these guys are made to drive properly?

Only in BTCC.................

Knowlesy · 9 Apr 2006, 19:07 (Ref:1574750)

I tend to agree with you there John....and Collards rush to explain his "accident" with Neal the moment he got a microphone shoved in his face was just immensely hollow, frankly.

There needs to be heavy penalties for this kind of driving, but it will not happen because it is what sells the series nowadays, I'm convinced.

Never mind, there is always the support races.

redshoes · 9 Apr 2006, 19:24 (Ref:1574773)

Just a few thoughts after Brands.

Overall I feel more confident about this year than last season, not just from a BTCC point of view but as a whole package. At the first meeting last year not only was the BTCC desperately short of entries but the support races seemed equally flat. SEAT Cupra looks promising - last year despite a lot of quality drivers it somehow failed to live up to expectations. Good to see a big Porsche grid after several years of struggling to get into double digits. I've bever been a singler seater fan but FBMW continues to try to convince me otherwise.

As far as the BTCC is concerned, we still desperately need a few more (good) entries but things are looking up. Enevitably some of the lower budget teams fell by the wayside during the day. Mark Smith was hopelessly off the pace in the Alfa but then given his gearbox problems that was only to be expected and not a true representation. Martyn Bell struggled with the BMW most of the weekend. Proctor, Leggate, Pinkney and Kaye all suffered problems during the day and each didn't start one race. Proff if it was needed that running at this level is not always as easy as people make out.

I'd forgot how good the combination of MG and Turkington was at Brands. There or thereabouts in all 3 races. If you discount Thommo, who effective can't win the championship, then Turkington is actually leading.

What's happened to Gavin Smith over the winter? For most of last year he was nowhere, suddenly he's putting in great lap times - fastest in FP2 and a consistant top ten (or even top 5) performance.

I was expecting far more from Gio. Not sure if it was car problems but he definately underperformed.

Good to see Thommo back and on top form. Hopefully he can use some of that win bonus to go get a decent haircut

Overall the racing was close but with not that much overtaking up front. Then again that's often the case on Brands Indy circuit.

Oh, one more thing. Today only confirmed why I think live TV coverage is not always a good thing. By the end of the Clio race the timetable was 30 mins ahead of schedule but we couldn't start the BTCC race early as ITV weren't ready. Instead we were "treated" to a performance by tribute band U-toot (or whatever they were called).

johnw · 9 Apr 2006, 19:25 (Ref:1574775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

....Collard was miffed with the pass Neal had made on him at Clearways, which itself involved a bit of contact, even though Collard had left the door open.

A bit of contact???? Neal barged him out of the way.
Can't blame Collard for retaliating, as bugger all else is done to redress the rubbish driving.
These guys are supposedly the cream of tin top racing. Seen more skill in dodgems at fairgrounds.

Al Weyman · 9 Apr 2006, 19:25 (Ref:1574776)

Bad driving standards, tell me the same old story (again and again), that and the advent of wings was why I stopped watching it.

The brake failure on Neals car makes you think, if these works teams get something as basic as brakes incorrect (you'ed have thought they would have had that one well sussed by now), then what hope for the rest of us back street mechanics :-).

Alfa Fan · 9 Apr 2006, 20:00 (Ref:1574811)

Collard has been excluded.

**touringlegend** · 9 Apr 2006, 20:19 (Ref:1574844)

I think it's unfair. But then I presume the officials have all the camera views of the incident and the telemetry to work out if Rob Collard reacted to Neal braking early so they must have found some inconsistency to hand out the penalty they have to him.

BootsOntheSide · 9 Apr 2006, 20:26 (Ref:1574859)

If Neal didn't brake earlier in the corner than on previous laps, the exclusion was probably valid, but my impression on seeing the replays was that Rob had no real change of avoiding contact, and it was just unfortunate that the car speared off at that angle, into a wall relatively close to the track, and on the driver's side. Rob's explanation seemed to fit with what happened.

Good point about Turkington essentially being the championship leader - I wonder if Colin and the team have figured that out? Early days, and a lot of the other front-runners didn't have 3 trouble-free races, but a positive sign.

Still, everything points to SEAT having a really strong season in both BTCC and WTCC. Who knows how many races Jimmy could win across the 2?

sceptic · 9 Apr 2006, 20:59 (Ref:1574906)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Oh, one more thing. Today only confirmed why I think live TV coverage is not always a good thing. By the end of the Clio race the timetable was 30 mins ahead of schedule but we couldn't start the BTCC race early as ITV weren't ready. Instead we were "treated" to a performance by tribute band U-toot (or whatever they were called).

Even if it hadn't been on TV the BTCC race wouldn't have been moved forward: While the support races can be brought forward, the three BTCC races are fixed.

I believe this is because there is something in the rules about having to have a minimum gap between the end of one BTCC race and the start of another.

J-C · 9 Apr 2006, 21:11 (Ref:1574918)

I'm pleased that the stewards have taken decisive action against Collard. It is important at the start of a season to lay down the law and set a precedent. I think it'll take a while for driving standards to improve to acceptable levels, but as long as incidents like today's are consistently punished, it can only be a good thing.

rallycrosscraig · 9 Apr 2006, 21:34 (Ref:1574937)

I watched races 1 and 2 live on Motors TV and reckon Giovanardi drove like an amateur (how much is he being paid?) and Plato should be banned and tought a lesson for driving like he is in stock car racing.

Its supposed to be the top level of saloon car racing in the UK but how can they get away with driving like stock hatchers? I'd like to know what Mike Jordan though of it.

redshoes · 9 Apr 2006, 21:55 (Ref:1574950)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sceptic

Even if it hadn't been on TV the BTCC race wouldn't have been moved forward: While the support races can be brought forward, the three BTCC races are fixed.

I believe this is because there is something in the rules about having to have a minimum gap between the end of one BTCC race and the start of another.

You're right, I hadn't considered about that. Having checked the regs it says a minimum of 90 mins between the end of Parc Ferme and the start of the next race wherever possible, although allows for the CoC and BTCC Admin to amend if required. As you say there is still the possibility for support races to be shuffled, ie. the FRenault race moved to before the BTCC race, which is what I think would have happened were it not for the TV coverage.

Hazard · 9 Apr 2006, 22:04 (Ref:1574956)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig

I watched races 1 and 2 live on Motors TV and reckon Giovanardi drove like an amateur (how much is he being paid?) and Plato should be banned and tought a lesson for driving like he is in stock car racing.

Its supposed to be the top level of saloon car racing in the UK but how can they get away with driving like stock hatchers? I'd like to know what Mike Jordan though of it.

Admittedly, I wasn't too impressed with Fabrizio in race one...closing way too many doors before he'd got his rump through, hardly smart.

Plato's driven like that since '97. Chilton seemed to pick up on his misbehaviour quite nicely.

Joe Taylor · 9 Apr 2006, 22:27 (Ref:1574992)

My view of the Collard/Neal incident is this:

When I first saw it, I thought that Collard was trying to retaliate after what happened at Clearways. However, having seen the replays, I think that Collard was caught out by Neal's earlier braking point

rdjones · 10 Apr 2006, 06:39 (Ref:1575211)

Wow what a weekend, I have too agree with what Redshoes said above, anyway what was the point to the U2 tribute band, there where a few cheers on Paddock Hill when they finally packed up.

Anyway on to the track action, I was not impressed with Giovanardi at all, he just didn't look right all weekend, but was his first race weekend so I expect him to stronger as the year goes on.

Colin Turkington back in MG, and TBH it just looked right and he was on it from the word go on Saturday morning. I was also impressed with Mike Jordan he was up there all weekend until his problem in Race 2.

All in all, I would say a big improvement on 2005 lets hope it continues for the rest of the year.

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