[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

The GTE qualifying race will only work on WEC rounds where they cut the race distance of the enduro race to 4 hours. I'm sure Silverstone can be one of those 4 hour races, perhaps COTA and Bahrain could be the others.

Which events you think should stay at 6 hours? Reduce to 4 hours?

Why does it only work on short races? I don't follow.

[GT6]

After cutting those races to 4 hours what next two hours, sorry but endurance racing is what it says, 6 hours is an absolute minimum no shorter or it will go the way of F1 boring processions.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yeah maybe I'm not clever enough to follow it but I don't really get too excited by the current qualifying. That said the alternative is a lack of track action as everyone says. I'm happy enough just to see cars on the track.

As long as they don't touch LM qualifying I'm not too fussed.

As far as I'm concerned, the current WEC qualifying is completely idiotic, particularly as it's abandoned in favour of 6 HOURS of it at Le Mans......

[TF110]

Hope they make races a little longer with more special added to it. Anything but 8 hours of Bahrain, though Spa, Fuji or Silverstone should be a longer race.

[Aysedasi]

I could handle a 10 am start at Silverstone for an 8 hour race. It would save me having to watch 7 cars in a support race (good though they sounded....)

[GT6]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I could handle a 10 am start at Silverstone for an 8 hour race. It would save me having to watch 7 cars in a support race (good though they sounded....)

Agreed 8 hours of silverstone would be perfect

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I could handle a 10 am start at Silverstone for an 8 hour race. It would save me having to watch 7 cars in a support race (good though they sounded....)

Or keep the 12:00 start and run them into the dark at the end

For a decent support race they should bring back CER!

[Aysedasi]

Yep, I always enjoyed the CER support.......

[deggis]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/r...-for-wec-date/

Kuwait could play host to the FIA World Endurance Championship as early as next year, with the new Hermann Tilke-designed FIA Grade 1 venue reportedly in the running to potentially replace Bahrain on the 2018 calendar.

Well, okay if it replaces Bahrain.

Track design: http://imgur.com/ghtnyaY

[TF110]

I like the layout



If it's in place of Bahrain, that'd be fine if they feel they have to run in the Mid-East. I'm guessing it pays (literally) to feature a race there. That may help in keeping the series alive.

[Akrapovic]

Well that looks like it's completely full character. I'm sure it'll be beautifully unique and loved by the strong motorsport community.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Well that looks like it's completely full character. I'm sure it'll be beautifully unique and loved by the strong motorsport community.

People might not like the area, but Mid-East is still a big market. It's not a historic one in Europe or America, but the track at least has less right angles than Bahrain and turns 3-7 look interesting.

[Akrapovic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQ7RXNmDsM

Video of it here.

Could well be a big market. Still doesn't make it any more interesting to anybody but the oil rich bond villain who is paying for it as a vanity project.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQ7RXNmDsM

Video of it here.

Could well be a big market. Still doesn't make it any more interesting to anybody but the oil rich bond villain who is paying for it as a vanity project.

A race is a race. If it's put on and the race is good, it could be in a parking lot, but was still worth watching imo. This is a world championship, so going to that part of the world- the middle east- where over 400 million people live I think is justified. It probably doesn't hurt if they're getting paid by Kuwait either

[Akrapovic]

Well, when you're watching it on TV I don't think it matters what region of the world it's in (unless the time zones mess with it). Remember Kuwait only has a population of about 4 million - making it less than London, or Scotland.

I don't care that it's in the middle east, I just think the track is a big pile of steaming...vanity nonsense. If they transplanted this into France, it'd be the same thing. Similarly, if they dropped Spa into Iran, it'd still be epic.

So to get around the fact that the track is as dull as a school play, they'll put it at night, pay to be the final round so it's a championship decider and put on some fireworks at the hotel, and everyone will have a huge party they can't drink alcohol at. It isn't exactly bringing anything new to the table.

The ACO should also learn from the mistakes of relying on big single incomes like this. We all listen to MWM and read the articles - we're all aware of the financial blow that the ACO took when Audi left. It proved it wasn't wise to rely on all of the money that Audi threw at the event. All it'll take is for a barrel of oil to be worth less than bottled water (again), and suddenly that income is away too. It seems like an easy source of income, but a very very unstable and unreliable one.

I'm sure it'll be amazing, and have a confirmed crowd of 55,000 though.

[TF110]

How do you know what the track is like when they've just broken ground on it recently? You're not going to be getting classic layouts like Spa anymore so I don't get the negativity surrounding these new tracks. I see a lot of cheap shots and assumptions in your post, so I think it's better we not even talk about that in particular. Arguing over a track in Kuwait isn't fun. I'm willing to give it a chance if it comes and I'd hope for everyone else to do the same. Bahrain's deal is up at the end of this year, and if Kuwait has money to give to the wec for a 3-year deal, it's only good for the series to take it up. There's always ELMS for those who only like those tracks. Maybe Monza takes a spot on the calendar as well?

[Akrapovic]

How do you know what the track is like when they've just broken ground on it recently?

How do we know what a modern Tilke track will be like? How do we know what a modern Tilke track will be like in the middle east? I know you're being optimistic, and perhaps rightly not condemning something before it's built, but come on man. That's why like asking "How do you know Ferrari will paint the next F1 car red?"

As I said, I think it's unwise going to the middle east and easy money and I don't see it having a long term place on the calendar. It might be a big market, but is it really a big market for Toyota? Or Peugeot? Porsche fair enough, even Audi. But I can't see the general wealthy population driving Peugeots to the circuit.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

As I said, I think it's unwise going to the middle east and easy money and I don't see it having a long term place on the calendar. It might be a big market, but is it really a big market for Toyota? Or Peugeot? Porsche fair enough, even Audi. But I can't see the general wealthy population driving Peugeots to the circuit.

Probably not an important market for normal passenger cars (maybe pickup trucks?), but certainly for sports and luxury cars:

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uplo...yBreakdown.jpg

http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uplo...sales-2015.jpg (lumped together with Asia (minus China) and Africa, but I would expect a similar split to Ferrari)

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by deggis

Probably not an important market for normal passenger cars (maybe pickup trucks?), but certainly for sports and luxury cars:

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uplo...yBreakdown.jpg

http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uplo...sales-2015.jpg (lumped together with Asia (minus China) and Africa, but I would expect a similar split to Ferrari)

Yeah, that's basically my point. Porsche will love it. Nobody there is driving a Toyota Prius of a Peugeot 1007 though. None of the LMP2 or GTE-Am class will care. So is WEC considering it because it's a big market...or because it's going to make some easy money out of it? I think we all know the answer to that one.

[Scorchess]

Could be both? What's wrong with easy money?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Could be both? What's wrong with easy money?

ACO not learning from their mistakes. Easy money was letting Audi throw so much at the series. Now this year they have a massive financial black hole, and have admitted it was silly to rely on Audi so much.

So instead, we'll go use an oil rich countries vanity project for some income. When oil tanks (again) or they get bored, that income will disappear too. It isn't investing in the core product, the core customers and core base, and is looking for an easy win. It's going to be hard to sell this as a positive to the privateer teams they claim are coming.

To be blunt - I don't see what this brings to the series in the long term right now.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Could be both? What's wrong with easy money?

Bahrain's contract is up. Maybe they can let both of them compete/bet for it.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It isn't investing in the core product, the core customers and core base

You need money to do that.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

You need money to do that.

Exactly. Like I said before, it's a WORLD championship, not an American one, European, Asian etc. They run all around the world. If Kuwait is putting up money to host a round, good for them, they'll represent the M.E.

And about the types of cars, Toyota's first car in Kuwait was the Land Cruiser (what else) in 1956. Only Saudi Arabia had a Toyota for sale before Kuwait. You'll probably see a lot of Toyota's actually, since they have over 32% of the market and have the best selling car, the Prado, for 6 years in a row

[Akrapovic]

32% of a market of 2 million customers. What a massive market! Based on that we need a lot more races for all these markets. could easily get 100 races a year! It is of course a world championship but the middle east is not a recognised area by the FIA required for a world championship status (it's also not a continent either). That area is represented by China and Japan in WEC. What we don't have is a race in South America, Africa or Australia (can debate if that's a continent or not - depends which model you use).

Let's keep going to these vanity projects. Sounds great. Kuwait till get a race and I'm predicting it lasts 3-4 years before its dropped. Nobody will notice it get dropped because we'll swap to the next one and continue the cycle of needing an unstable oil rich country to fund the series because they haven't looked elsewhere.

Don't worry I'm sure all those private P1 teams (we must be at 15 confirmed by now) will love paying to get dragged there so Toyota can sell a pickup truck to the confirmed totally legit 55,000 fans.

I don't see what it brings to the series. If the series needs that income to survive then it asks serious questions about the state of the series and sustainability in even medium term.