Threat to Wimbledon Stock Car Stadium?

[Stephen H]

I suppose, I was lucky enough to go to Wimbledon, when the stands were open all the way round, when air horns greeted the drivers coming through the tunnel, when there were grand driver parades, the track was shale, and when Hot Rods passed on the outside. When there were BP nights and when the Winternationals were Televised on World of Sport.

I just look at the way other Countries seem embrace motorsport and their events and the heritage...look at Mettet, the road racing may of stopped, but they built that little circuit on the back of the old pits and now hold "World Rallycross Events", but ensure there are enough banners and posters to remind new spectators of the heritage that has gone before.

In the days of French track rotation for the European Rallycross, I loved the way the local communities supported getting the "European" at their local track. Though sadly in IMG world that is another thing we have lost.

Just getting fed up of the sport I love getting, strangled with ever tighter noise restrictions and regulations.

Not really a banger fan myself, its always been the other formula I go to watch, but I have to say the racing of the last few seasons in the "non national" kind, has been pretty amazing. And you have to admire the effort they put in week in and week out to gets cars on track.

[chunder]

Again, for some eason Brits are far more protective of lots of things than motor sport.

I do not know why really. Abroad they seem to embrace closed roads rallying and local events, but in the UK most motorsport is seen as a pest or a nuisance or at best something to put up with, it is rarely embraced in the same ways.

There are ways to combat it, but they need to be incorporated from the start not at the last minute just as the thing is closing.

You have to be proactive, it only takes one lobbyist these days to start a petition and get support for tracks getting closed.

And the big elephant in the room is space, there simply isn't any in England in the areas where people live, there is space of course but it is out in the sticks.

If you are wanting to build tracks right now the place to do it is Wales, or the North East. Both places that are on their knees with the government unwilling to help their steel industries, so any investment of something else would probably be welcomed!

[kelvin88]

I'll be racing a Legend there on the 20th of March, I'll expect to see both of you there armed with air horns.

[Stephen H]

Ha, Ha, not sure I would get passed Stadium Security with an Air Horn!!!!

Though I will certainly aim to be there, to see the Legends, assuming I can get in. Heard they had to turn people away at the recent Banger World Series Meeting. (Banger only meetings, not my thing, so gave that one a miss.)

Looking forward to hearing the sounds of the biked engined oval racers, reflecting off the glass fronted grandstands.

The "hopeful" fixture list now show meetings from October 2016 till New Years Day 2017.

But Wimbledon AFC seems to be forging ahead with a Stadium design, though have said they cannot afford a 20 000 seater stadium, so are looking to build a 10 000 seater.

Apparently the developers haven't submitted a section 106 yet, so the Mayor has yet to rule on the planning decision.

The sad thing is, the "Legends" meeting could be still be the last at the Stadium, but we might not know its the last till after.

Full respect to Peter Gray and the Save Wimbledon Stadium campaign, and full support for trying to raise awareness to save the Venue.

Great to see Leapy, Duffy and George do a lap on the back of the control car on Sunday. A great reminder of a Golden age.....when you could use an Air Horn and ironically a "Football" Rattle.....

[ss_collins]

there is no London, it is just a huge centre for every single race, creed, colour and shape.

Nothing wrong with that per se, but all identity is lost.

Errr soo not too up to speed on the history of London then... its been a melting pot like most port cities since it was founded. Indeed "a huge centre for every single race, creed, colour and shape" is the perfect description of London through its entire history. Suggest the Peter Akroyd (sp?) books.

Not quite sure what that has to do with Wimbo though.

[old man]

Not a regular contributor to this sector but spotted the Wimbledon thread, a familiar name from my early days watching speedway at Odsal.

It is strange and sad that greater London cannot support a short oval track, I have visited a few in recent years and, like karting, it is an exciting trackside experience where all the action is visible .

[Stephen H]

Originally Posted by old man

Not a regular contributor to this sector but spotted the Wimbledon thread, a familiar name from my early days watching speedway at Odsal.

It is strange and sad that greater London cannot support a short oval track, I have visited a few in recent years and, like karting, it is an exciting trackside experience where all the action is visible .

The support is clearly there for the track and oval racing, 2000 people signed the petition to save it on the first evening. Despite all the restrictions on transporters, and battling Sunday Trading to get to the Venue, it still pulls in reasonable crowds and reasonable car counts. Most meetings have around 100 plus cars spread over four formula on average. Which is good through the Winter Months.

The problem is the owners, who seem to have brought Greyhound Tracks, for the purpose of trying to bulldoze them for housing.

Thankfully there are some strong Councils out there, and Oxford have said NO to houses on their Stadium. They see it as an asset.

Wimbledon Stadium is designated leisure land. So the developers have gone in with Wimbledon AFC to build a Football Pitch to tick that box and build 600 homes on the Car Park/Pit Area to fund it.

Until recently most media has been promoting it as a positive story. "The Dons are coming home". Well I'm sorry Wimbledon lost its pitch to housing and team to Milton Keynes. But Wimbledon AFC have never played in Plough Lane, so they aren't coming home and in truth it is a story of loss for London.

London is loosing its last Grand Old Stadium, Greyhound Racing and Stock Car Racing.

There is a huge area just been cleared of warehouses less than 3 miles from Plough Lane, with far better public transport links for a football pitch. So its not as if there is not space on cleared sites elsewhere.

Still it will be a story you must know only to well, with Odsal Stadium losing speedway after 54 years.

Its long over due that someone stood up for motorsport.

And full credit to Superstox driver Peter Gray amongst others, for stepping up and trying his hardest to save racing in the Capital.

And congratulations to him and BBC London radio for a great programme on Monday that highlighted the passion and family involvement in grass roots motorsport.

If there is one good thing to come out of this threat, it is the passion that all those involved in oval racing have shown for the sport, and the media are finally starting to recognise and report on that passion.

[NICK ALLISON]

Perhaps we should have a marketing campaign putting South London as the hub of city motorsport featuring Wimbledon, Battersea Park (Formula E) and Crystal Palace ( sprint at end of May).?

[chunder]

The point about London being a town full of non English is to be blunt one of interest, The vast majority of ethnic minority folk are not historically the slightest bit interested in anything motorsport orientated, whereas if the city was a little more how can we say English, then perhaps there would be more support.

The ONLY reason there is still oval racing there at all is because there is still a promoter operating in the area, Spedeworth. But, they have invested heavily in Ipswich, a stadium that can house more fans, is not in a largely built up area and is a far better venue for hosting big meetings with parking and access. Wimbo is dying and not theirs so why spend.

Wimbledon is a dinosaur of an age that does not exist anymore (tracks in cities), and yes it is sad but to be honest if I was on the council and someone wanted to build 600 houses there or keep the stadium open I would close it in an instant, stub out the football pitch and build even more houses or flats, they are far more needed in London areas than anything sports related (Olympics take note), of which there are countless venues within a 10 or 15 miles.

If it wasn't for Spedeworth, racing would have stopped there years ago, and is only really a part time thing in the winter anyway, as it can't be sustained the rest of the year as it used to be even a few years ago, even Spedeworth ahve moved away to venues like Aldershot, Eastbourne and Yarmouth more now.

Odsal is different, the track is still there by and large and the area surrounding is probably the same as it was in the late 90's, sadly rugby league got in there and dumped the short oval folk, and despite lots of hot air, it's never going to happen there as a venue until Bulls are kicked out and that is not likely despite them going to the wall various times.

Move on, Coventry are trying to secure a new venue, but imagine the hurdles!

The best places for one are North East, Wales and perhaps remote parts of Norfolk or the East where there are less people, you are unlikely to EVER get planning permission for a track in a built up area, that is a simple fact these days, unless you can attract kids or something and its quiet and not polluting, all things motorsport is not good at.

Kings Lynn have to jump through hoops and they are on an industrial estate next to a giant paper factory, but because the the dust they are STILL bound by time limits and have to over water the track etc.

[old man]

Just to correct you slightly on Odsal, Bradford Northern played there from the start, speedway came next and was very successful for quite a long time. Next came stock cars on the shale and the speedway died with complaints that the cars ruined the surface. At that time the corners of the rugby pitch were relaid with turf over the speedway track between meetings!

Next came tarmac for the stock cars and the F1 cars ran with good crowds for some years but despite heavy timbers being used to try and keep the cars off the pitch the two were uneasy bed fellows and as Super League replaced the old league the danger of metal from the F1 cars being on the playing surface and the fact that the "Bulls" were a major force in Super league ended the dual purpose. The F2 cars were never major parts of meetings at Odsal I don't think

There has been much talk of the redevelopment of Odsal in many ways but it remains solely a rugby ground now. Locals have written off the chances of a return of short oval racing as it is in a very built up housing area. The Bulls of course are now out of the SL but trying hard to gain promotion

[chunder]

Odsal will never run stock cars again, I care not for the history to be honest.

Nor for speedway, the two have always been tough relations, but more often than not the stock cars will provide more attendance and if the track owners put their weight behind both like Kings Lynn and Coventry the two can co exist happily.

At some tracks that will never happen, and those tracks will always struggle as a result.

[Stephen H]

Well the "Dogs" have announced their Final Meeting, 18th June, as their lease expires on the 14th July.

As it stands there is a fixture list for Oval Race Meeting after the Summer break from October till New Years Day.

But Wimbledon AFC are still talking about site clearance.

So there could be just 2 race meetings to go, before we loose the last weekly winter motorsport venue.

[Stephen H]

Great news on the 62nd Birthday of Stock Car racing, that following on from "Boris" calling the proposed Football Stadium in for review. The owners of the stadium have signed a 2 year lease with Spedeworth There is talk of a 6 month notice period. But at least it means the chequered flag has not fallen on Oval Racing on London just yet. Though worryingly Wimbledon AFC have launched their own campaign "London Calling" calling for all Football fans to back their plans to return to Plough Lane. Which is in itself very mis-leading as Wimbledon AFC have never played in Plough Lane. Still hopefully, the new lease will mean we will get Motorsport in the Capital next winter.

[Number4]

Until the British oval racing product improves, stadiums like Wimbledon will always struggle. I have been to tracks all over the country, and 99% of the racing is in dull uninspiring beat up old cars.
I used to go to Wimbledon in the 90's, when I lived nearby. There was a show on Motors TV from Wimbledon last year, it looked like the same cars from 20 years ago, and the commentator was trying to tout it as the UK equivalent of NASCAR. Frankly I was embarrassed. 20 old sierras hitting a fence made from railway track and cable.
The National Hot Rods are incredibly boring, our stock cars are allowed too much contact, and the best prepared race cars in the country are bangers.
Spedeworth run 20 series, which seem to all resemble bangers. The only decent series in England are the BRISCA F1 cars, and they won't race outside of the midlands and north.

[Stephen H]

The planning recommendation is for the planning decision to be handed back to Merton. if that happens we will have to say good by to Stock Car Racing and Grass Roots Motor Sport in the Capital.

[Minicross424]

Originally Posted by Number4

Until the British oval racing product improves, stadiums like Wimbledon will always struggle. I have been to tracks all over the country, and 99% of the racing is in dull uninspiring beat up old cars.
I used to go to Wimbledon in the 90's, when I lived nearby. There was a show on Motors TV from Wimbledon last year, it looked like the same cars from 20 years ago, and the commentator was trying to tout it as the UK equivalent of NASCAR. Frankly I was embarrassed. 20 old sierras hitting a fence made from railway track and cable.
The National Hot Rods are incredibly boring, our stock cars are allowed too much contact, and the best prepared race cars in the country are bangers.
Spedeworth run 20 series, which seem to all resemble bangers. The only decent series in England are the BRISCA F1 cars, and they won't race outside of the midlands and north.

Number 4? Is this Dan Johnson?

[chunder]

Number 4 is I very much doubt Mr Johnson, he would not be so utterly misinformed about short oval racing nor so disparaging about most formulas that race there.

Bangers are a staple diet for a simple reason, they bring in far bigger crowds than anything else and most of the drivers are local meaning they will always support that track. The support formula's for the bigger series are simple, basic and the cars are built to last hence they look tatty and beaten up, what on earth do you expect? If you want inspiring cars go to Goodwood and watch them being ambled up a hill by a rich owner. who has no driving ability and is too scared to drive it properly.

This is budget motorsport of the kind no MSA licence holder will ever realise or be aware of likely. Hence the cars look a bit shabby.

All contact Stock cars are supposed to have lots of contact, if you don't understand that then you really have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

And F1 stox often provide the least amount of action on a stock car meeting, try national saloons, 13400 stox, Ministox or shale F2 before making sweeping statements.

In other news, Woody has bought Mildenhall, so their future relatively safe.

[Number4]

Originally Posted by chunder

Number 4 is I very much doubt Mr Johnson, he would not be so utterly misinformed about short oval racing nor so disparaging about most formulas that race there.

Bangers are a staple diet for a simple reason, they bring in far bigger crowds than anything else and most of the drivers are local meaning they will always support that track. The support formula's for the bigger series are simple, basic and the cars are built to last hence they look tatty and beaten up, what on earth do you expect? If you want inspiring cars go to Goodwood and watch them being ambled up a hill by a rich owner. who has no driving ability and is too scared to drive it properly.

This is budget motorsport of the kind no MSA licence holder will ever realise or be aware of likely. Hence the cars look a bit shabby.

All contact Stock cars are supposed to have lots of contact, if you don't understand that then you really have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

And F1 stox often provide the least amount of action on a stock car meeting, try national saloons, 13400 stox, Ministox or shale F2 before making sweeping statements.

In other news, Woody has bought Mildenhall, so their future relatively safe.

In the last year I have been to meetings at Aldershot, Birmingham, Buxton, Dover, Northampton, Ringwood, Smallfields, and Sheffield. So I have a reasonable idea of what I am talking about.
You call me disparaging, yet go on to agree with all of my points.
Obviously you believe that I am not entitled to my own opinions about stock cars, or anything for that matter.
The fact is Wimbledon is closing. Would it be closing if it had huge crowds every week? No. Why does it not have huge crowds every week? Because people don't want to pay to watch the racing there.
There is a short track race in the States this weekend. Maybe 150,000 will attend. It could be something to do with the cars being a little bit more inspirational.

[chunder]

The main reason why Wimbo does not get big crowds or big meetings anymore is nothing whatsoever with the racing that is there.

It is do with inner city legislation in London that heavily taxes the Hi-abs and transporters that most stock car teams and drivers use to ferry their cars. THey are heavily monetarily penalised for bringing their vehicles into London.

In the last decade Wimbo used to hold the Banger world final, a huge event that had sell out crowds and was the only short oval meeting anywhere in the country to be all ticket. It could not be held there anymore because of this emissions legislation that prevents or heavily financially penalises older diesel vehicles from being in the inner London area.

And with meetings often finishing late on Saturday night, the chance of being "done" twice by the cameras was high, so the promoters moved the big meetings to other stadia.

Surely someone with your experience might know that eh? As it's been common knowledge as the main reason for the downfall of Wimbledon for years!

Khan has effectively signed the death warrant now anyway, by allowing Merton council to go ahead with building a football stadium there.

Americans to be honest don't know any better, their motorsport diet is built around oval racing, so the prize oney is immense, the ladder to top series like Late Models, Sprint cars and NASCAR is there for them, unlike anywhere else in the world, hence their short oval and oval racing in general attracts the kind of crowds we get for F1, MotoGP and other large events.

I personally dislike US racing, it is all non contact. the thing I like about most UK short oval racing. Yes the cars look great, are fast, but the racing is so so in my opinion.

[chunder]

Oh dear, did IG suddenly drop while you are banger only tracks watching bangers!

Where in my post did I say I like bangers? You've "allegedly" been to Smallfield for Gods sake, they only run bangers there lol! And Dover, and Ringwood! All primarily banger tracks.

If you did any kind of research, you would know that the emissions situation is the prime reason why Wimbledon does not host big banger meetings anymore. They certainly used to, but all those big dates have now gone to Ipswich, a far bigger, better and more settled track where these things are not a problem and big crowds and car attendances are still guaranteed.

I do not like watching them any more than you do, but they HAVE to be accommodated as their big meetings get far bigger crowds than any other short oval racing. Ice breaker, world final, some of the big meetings get massive crowds, so as a track owner you have to make sure you get the biggest dates and meetings.

Read what people post, do some research, bangers will be here to stay a long time after stock cars will I am afraid.

[Compsec99]

In early March 2017 formula 1 BRISCA stock cars will race at Wimbledon for the last time, as a tribute to its importance in the stock car world

[chunder]

A slightly bizarre decision considering Stock cars and Brisca were never really that big down South and never have been!

But a great way to sign off the stadium. Supports from saloons stock cars and a proper Wimbledon formula Superstox.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Americans to be honest don't know any better, their motorsport diet is built around oval racing, so the prize oney is immense, the ladder to top series like Late Models, Sprint cars and NASCAR is there for them, unlike anywhere else in the world, hence their short oval and oval racing in general attracts the kind of crowds we get for F1, MotoGP and other large events.

I personally dislike US racing, it is all non contact. the thing I like about most UK short oval racing. Yes the cars look great, are fast, but the racing is so so in my opinion.

Plenty of contact in the lower ranks at the local level.

Would much rather watch a field of street stocks(think 80s monte carlos) around a 1/3 mile oval than anything at the TV level of NASCAR.

I think the main problem for y'all in the UK is the size of the tracks. All are pretty much 1/4 mile and relatively flat. I feel if you built a 1/3 or 3/8 mile track with some decent banking you'd see even better racing, especially out of the non-contact formulas.

Also, ditch the standing starts and separation by class. You can have the cars separated by talent level, but have them do a 2x2 rolling start in one pack, rather than the groups of cars and a standing start.

This is my local track where we run a late model, it's the perfect size for most oval categories. In this video are Street Stocks and Ministocks. They mostly all start as a factory stock vehicle that has been preped for racing, so they're perfectly safe and fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM-JOFhZr6s

[Stephen H]

There are just 5 Race Meetings left and 3 are advanced ticket only.

From the Wimbledon AFC, Bring the Dons Home Website.

"A consultation period is now open for Historic England, who have been tasked with looking again at the question of whether or not the existing Greyhound Stadium should be listed and preserved for its architectural and historic interest. They have previously concluded that it was not of sufficient interest to be listed.

BTDH therefore invites all Wimbledon fans and supporters of the new stadium proposal to write to Historic England supporting their original decision not to list the stadium and urging them to come to the same conclusion a second time."

In the interest of fairness, in case any Motor Sport fans want to write in support of the existing Stadium, comments can be sent to the Senior Listing Advisor, Sarah Gibson, until the 27th Feb 2017, the email address is: Sarah.Gibson@HistoricEngland.org.uk.

[chunder]

I can't think enough people will sign a thing like that.

I think the bigger issue here is that the area is being used for another sport. That for me is why the protest has some validity. If the venue was simply being sold for property I could not see the point in complaining, as land in London now is almost priceless and homes in any area much needed.

But this is another sports stadium for a club that came from a fans protests years ago and didn't exist before then. They have already ruined another teams ground by selling the old Kingstonian ground to Chelsea for money and are now doing the exact same thing with another sports stadium for their own gain.

The only reason it is likely to be given the go ahead is that they are building houses there too, the area is industrial, it is not surrounded by housing, it is surrounded by tatty units and car dealers.

I think delaying tactics are the order of the day for the protestors, and what the shame is, is that we lose another track but gain another pointless football ground, for a team that doesn't need to exist.