ALMS Rnd 3: Mid-Ohio 19-21 May 2006

[JAG]

Originally Posted by isynge

I think the R8 was running in a much more heavily restricted guise in the LMES last year which might go some way towards explaining the difference.

More critical though is the relative maturity of the machines in question. The Pescarolo can probably be seen as the ultimate expression of what a Courage C60 can do, much as the R8 has benefited from consistent enhancement over the years. By contrast Dyson's in much the same situation as they were in 03 when they started out with the MGs, having an enormously complex car that they needed to work on sorting in a public way - they'll get there with this year's Lola, but in the meantime they give the appearance of falling short in contrast to the enormously well prepared Audi.

Once the Zytek appears, and Audi start running the R10 (which simply due to the stage of its development won't be as bulletproof as the R8) combined with the performance of the Porsches (provided the ACO doesn't peg them back after today's result) and an evolving Dyson Lola I think things will start to get a lot more interesting up the front.

Not sure about the R8, I think they're the same spec, 950kg and 560-570bhp.

Must admit I'm losing faith with Dyson and Lola.

The car looked awful on the TV, squirming all over the place.

The Courage LC70, Pescarolo, Creation and Zytek all showed great pace within a few weeks of hitting the track.

The Lola's unreliable, which was expected, and plain slow.

You'd think with the P2 experience the P1 would have hit the ground running.

Even at this very early stage there must be doubts at Dyson the Lola/AER package was the right way to go.

[gwyllion]

Porsche 1-2, closely followed by the Audi. The Corvettes again beats Aston Martins. The #20 Dyson retires with gearbox problems

http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/lt/ltc.html

[Hazard]

A curious race. LMP2 kills LMP1. Very strange.

Don't know why the Lamy/Sarrazin car was so far off, Enge/Turner would have been closer to the Corvette's if it hadn't been for the puncture & safety car timing.

[CorvetteC6R]

Extremely bad luck for the Astons. They will, and should win by seasons end. Dyson? yet again this is extremely new car, new engine, new everything..I think the lemans break for the Dyson boys is gonna be a good thing. The Porsches? well thats what you call leading the pack..We knew it would happen. Its good for the series. Now can you think what Acura is thinking? maybe others?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Hazard

A curious race. LMP2 kills LMP1. Very strange.

.

Well, there was effectively only one proper P1 in the race, the Weaver Lola, and that looks a little wild and unsorted.

Having said that, I was impressed how they motored away from the R8 and RS Spyder once Butch (or was it Weaver) passed McNish. Looked for a while they could close on the lead Spyder.

Somehow in the pitstops they dropped back and never figured again.

You can see the Lola has potential, just hope they can nail it for the post Le Mans races.

[tux]

Originally Posted by CorvetteC6R

Now can you think what Acura is thinking? maybe others?

yes how can they smuggle spys into stuttgart

i thought the battle between mcnish, letzinger and the porsche was brilliant to watch. shame the gt 1 battle couldnt have been a little closer at the begining but when the saftey car came out it looked as if it was really going to get exciting but then bad luck for Enge.

[jonboyG]

Aston Martin won't beat the Corvettes this year running on Pirellis. There was mention during the race that they might switch back to Michelins for Le Mans. Still don't know why they switched in the first place.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by jonboyG

Aston Martin won't beat the Corvettes this year running on Pirellis. There was mention during the race that they might switch back to Michelins for Le Mans. Still don't know why they switched in the first place.

Pirelli is a major sponsor of the team for their ALMS effort.

[The Badger]

LMP2 wins overall ..... what happened to the Dyson assault ? Cant help feeling that the LMP2 rules need adjusting , cuz an LMP2 shouldnt be able to beat a new Lola .
Great race for awhile between Porsche , Dyson and Audi ...

AMR racing is nearly there , hopefully stronger for Le Mans and a great result for the old tired 911 ..... good to see some poke still in it .
GT1 needs a lot more cars ..... wonder what it would be like if AMR hadnt decided in racing in the Alms ?

Rumour is that Corvette will go LMP1 , according to Motors TV .

That DBR was just as fast as the R8 on the straights , Nishy couldnt make any gap at all .

When was the last time Tom Weickhart wasnt at a alms race ?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Cant help feeling that the LMP2 rules need adjusting, cuz an LMP2 shouldnt be able to beat a new Lola.

The performance advantage of the P1's over the P2's is better demonstrated in Europe. The rules look just fine to me.

The way I see it, we should be questioning the performance of the Dyson Lola's and why they were unable to beat an old Audi R8, far more worrying given the huge penalties the R8 incurrs.

Wait until the R10's and Zytek 06S arrive post Le Mans and we'll see if the rules need to be changed. It may be that you're right but I'll disagree for the time being.

[SebringMG]

Got to agree with Bentley here - the problem is with the Dyson Lola's performing poorly rather than the POrsche being particularly quick for a P2 car, also dissapointed with Intersport as well and the other P2 runners they should be a lot quicker than they appear to be running.

Once the new cars arrive post LM i think we will see the porkers put in their place

[isynge]

The additional thought to have re changing the LMP1/2 balance rules is that Mid Ohio is a track where LMP2s have done well in the past. I recall Intersport comfortably keeping the Lola, Audi, and Zytek behind them last year - admittedly they were only in front due to pitstops/safety cars but it did demonstrate the dynamic ability of the smaller prototypes around a track like that.

I can see Porsche doing very well at Lime Rock and thereafter something more approaching normal service should be resumed.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

The performance advantage of the P1's over the P2's is better demonstrated in Europe. The rules look just fine to me.

The way I see it, we should be questioning the performance of the Dyson Lola's and why they were unable to beat an old Audi R8, far more worrying given the huge penalties the R8 incurrs.

Wait until the R10's and Zytek 06S arrive post Le Mans and we'll see if the rules need to be changed. It may be that you're right but I'll disagree for the time being.

Point taken .....

It seems that since Dyson got rid of their R&S's , they seem to have a lot of bad luck .

[brielga]

I could not agree more, the Dyson Lolas performance was dismal, they are the only team with a new car in LMP1 and they were never quicker than the Audi. The battle Audi-Lola-Porsche was nice while it lasted but it was clear the Porsches were much quicker and the Lola was nowhere close....

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by brielga

I could not agree more, the Dyson Lolas performance was dismal, they are the only team with a new car in LMP1 and they were never quicker than the Audi. The battle Audi-Lola-Porsche was nice while it lasted but it was clear the Porsches were much quicker and the Lola was nowhere close....

Fastest Lap #16 - 1:14.589
Fastest Lap #2 - 1:15.071

Once the Leitzinger got past the Audi, he drove away from it. The Lola was not slower than the Audi.

[Fieldgate]

I would like to see one of the new LMP1 Lola's with a Judd V10 to see if it makes any difference. In theory, the turbo should give better punch out the corner, but it just looks disappointing currently.

Even on the Euro-LMS circuits (to-date) it hasn't been lightening fast, but maybe the bigger LeM straights will allow it to get into it's stride. Audi had a lot bigger development budget to get theirs to work.

As an aside, have Porsche now categorically demonstrated that a 3.4ltr V8 is THE engine config to go for in LMP2 ?

[canam]

Originally Posted by Fieldgate

As an aside, have Porsche now categorically demonstrated that a 3.4ltr V8 is THE engine config to go for in LMP2 ?

No, they have demonstrated that with pro drivers and a large (manufacturer) budget, they will eventually win a short race on a track that is virtually purpose built for them. Still slower than Shimoda last year. Le Mans and V8s don't mix.

On another tangent, should LMP2s be pegged back? Outright victories are not what the ACO want and the gap between new LMP2 and LMP1 is very narrow. 2-3 seconds a lap in LMS. Given that all the GTs are getting faster, maybe the ACO should give P1s bigger restrictors.

[zac510]

That might be subject for a new thread but if they are only competitive for outright honours at one track per year, is that reason to peg them back already? I think it will keep them motivated and spectators interested. Everybody loves the underdog

[JAG]

2-3 seconds a lap advantage is probably right were the ACO want P1 and P2.

With that advantage a P1 should finish laps ahead of the P2 opposition, particularly when reliabilty issue are taken into account.

How many times has the R8 won with consistent pace, beating much quicker cars?

Audi, Pescarola and now Porsche are showing consistent, reliable running will get results, whether P1 or P2.

Small ALMS prototype fields are also clouding the issue.

It's no use comparing factory P2 Porsches with unsorted P1 Dyson Lola's, compare them to the R10.

We should look at.....

Dyson P1 vs Intersport P2............RS Spyder P2 vs Audi R10 P1.


BTW, apparently Intersport had gearbox issues which slowed them. How quick are Intersport compared to RML, Chamberlain etc.?

And WHY is the Courage Mazda so, so slow, I realise they're overweight etc. but come on!

[canam]

I do not believe that the ACO want to see a P2 car taking overall laurels--on any circuit. It seems that the target gap between the GTs is roughly 7 seconds (at Le mans). It appeared to be that the gap GT1 and LMP2 was similar. On current form, the Porsche would be only 3 -4 seconds off the pole-sitting Pesca--and 10 seconds faster than the GT1. I have no doubt that they will be 'scaled back'...although they will 'pull an Audi' by not showing their form at LM until the last minute.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by canam

I do not believe that the ACO want to see a P2 car taking overall laurels--on any circuit. It seems that the target gap between the GTs is roughly 7 seconds (at Le mans). It appeared to be that the gap GT1 and LMP2 was similar. On current form, the Porsche would be only 3 -4 seconds off the pole-sitting Pesca--and 10 seconds faster than the GT1. I have no doubt that they will be 'scaled back'...although they will 'pull an Audi' by not showing their form at LM until the last minute.

I'm not so sure they're that close - everything I've heard seems to indicate that the RS Spyder dislikes significant straights, to say nothing of the challenge of getting a car like that to run for 24 hours.

While the RS Spyder might need a bit of a peg back in terms of its outright pace at the moment it'll be much more interesting to see how it works once it ends up in customer hands and competes against better sorted opposition (with all due respect to Intersport I think they'd be the first to admit they'd like to switch to Michelins and a readier supply of front line engines probably wouldn't do any harm either).

I'd also really like to think that Penske aren't going to be sandbagging all the way to mid 2007!

[jhansen]

My thoughts:

I think it really is a case of Dyson not having the ability to sort out the car quick enough. They're in deep trouble in the points race. The R10 is miles ahead at the moment and Dyson needed to be in the points lead post Limerock.

P1 is clearly quicker than P2. That will be on full display at Le Mans. As someone else said, don't let the small ALMS prototype field cloud the issue.

Hats off to the Penske-Porsche crew. Very solid display despite an interesting inter-team rivalry.

Regarding Intersport, I'm left to wonder why Liz Halliday is a full time driver. Is she a pay driver? She cannot match Clint's pace, and John Field's pace is a bit faster than Clint's. Why aren't both Fields running the sprint races?

Hopefully the new Radical arrives soon. That's one very out-dated car that I am glad to see replaced. On a side note, the CBS broadcast noted that Alan McNish was looking forward to seeing the Radical in person.

And I'm with JAG. Seeing the Mazda that far back is troubling.

I'm wondering if Aston Martin and Pirelli will find the sweet spot against Corvette and Michelin. Seems a daunting task indeed.

GT2 remains very interesting. And what about Flying Lizzard pulling off an upset!

[JAG]

It will be interesting to see peoples reactions when the 'uncompetitive' Lola P2 is trouncing customer RS Spyders when it forms part of tha factory Acura team.

Intersport aren't on the best tyres, don't have the best drivers and without the budget of factory teams and large privateers.

Look back to 2005, all and sundry complaing the ACO had it in for Saleen, small rear wing and all.

Oreca have stepped up, factory backing, big budget, class drivers, Michelin tyres, and whipped the privateer Astons and C6.R/C5-R's.

I'm guessing they'll be on the pace of the factory Corvettes in due time.

[The Badger]

Lola P2 with Acura factory support and quick drivers against a customer RS Spyder with maybe not so quick drivers !!!

Rumour is Aston Martin Racing will be Michelin shod for Le Mans .

[2112]

I want my flying car!