FIA App K regulations - 01-01-2012

[Enrico Spaggiari]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement :
Compulsory for cars CT and GTS over 2000 cc
The upper part of the safety cage must comply with one of Drawings K-19, K-20 or K21.
The reinforcements may follow the curve of the roof.
For competitions without co-drivers, in the case of Drawing K-19 only, only one diagonal member may be fitted but its front connection must be on the driver’s side.
The ends of the reinforcements must be less than 100 mm from the junction between rollbars and members (not applicable to the top of the V formed by reinforcements in Drawings K-20 and K-21).

Hi everyone.
First of all, thanks for posting the link with new regs.
I have a question about the new rollbar rules. My car (Ford Mustang 1965) is fitted with a rollbar which has 1 diagonal member (drawing K-12), 1 doorbar on each side (drawing K-15) and no roof reinforcement (just main roof members). I had never have problems so far during scrutineering (both in Italy and Europe), so I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Thank you fro your reply.
Kind regards.

Enrico

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Enrico Spaggiari

Hi everyone. I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Kind regards.

Enrico

Enrico, my take on this- as someone with no authority at all on the subject, but have tried to interpret the regs - is that it is over 2 litre CT and GTS cars of all periods.

Which means from Jan 1947 (Start of 'E') through to whenever CT & GTS finish- could be mid 80s or later- get confused trying to work that bit out!

Maybe I am wrong regarding period 'E' cars but looks like that from Jan 1962 'F' onwards like your Mustang are included. But this is only my interpretation- hopefully some clarification will come from race organisers and scrutineers before our seasons start!

Makes me glad only have under 2 litre car- but perhaps FIA saving that for next year!

[Enrico Spaggiari]

Thanks Mike.
Unfortunately,when new rules come out it's always a matter of interpretation... Anyway I have had the same feeling as you... over 2.000cc cars for all periods :-(
More kilos in the car, more euros out of the pocket... That's motor racing, isn't it?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Enrico Spaggiari

More kilos in the car, more euros out of the pocket... That's motor racing, isn't it?

Certainly is. Thinking myself lucky that have only got job to do from App K changes!

Suddenly non FIA historic racing becomes more appealing!

[zefarelly]

which 99% of it is anyway!

[rogerwills]

I read recently the post about fire extinguishers needing to have the clamps changed and be larger size. Where does this come from? The blue-book?

[Peter Mallett]

I saw that too. I think its App J. Worth a look.

Article 7 here:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/79839E53797F9746C125784D005E1787/$FILE/253%20(11-12)-080311.pdf

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

I read recently the post about fire extinguishers needing to have the clamps changed and be larger size. Where does this come from? The blue-book?

It seems it is a new FIA requirement for plumbed in systems. The safety instructions from the RACB (the Belgian ASN) for the Spa Summer Classic specifically identify it as a requirement for this year - but it will undoubtably spread. All designed to catch us out at scrutineering.

I have just ordered two retaining straps for the princely sum of £4.56 +VAT - the carriage is more than the cost of the straps......

The normal size sold in the UK of 2.25 ltr is still OK - the RACB have amended their original statement of needing 2.4 ltr.

[terence]

Where are they from Brian?

[Peter Mallett]

As above Terry. Appendix J.

BTW. As I read it AFFF is 2.4lt and all others are 2lt.

[terence]

Errrrr,I was referring to the straps Peter.

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Where are they from Brian?

They are from a fastener specialist found when searching for Mikalor clamps. I've ordered what they describe as T-bolt hose clamps - come in all sorts of sizes. www.hcl-clamping.co.uk.

You may want to wait until they've arrived and I can confirm that they work

[terence]

Tweeks do them for the same money Brian,thankyou. Just ordered mine but there has been a rush on them [no,really?] £17.25 with post and packing.

[Suppose I ought to make it totally legal before I sell it.]

[Peter Horsman]

My reading of the regs is that App K 5.7.1 says that circuit cars must be equipped with at least a hand operated (manual) extinguisher complying with App J 253.7.3 (;ast updated 8 Marc 2011) but a system homolgated by the FIA per 253.7.2 (referring to Tech List 16 -recommended systems - last updated 10 Sept 2010) is recommended.

This can be taken to mean that an approved Tech List 16 system is preferred but a 253.7.3 hand held manual is a minimum (ie, both are not required).

Looking at 253.7.3, at 7.3.3, it says that manual extinguishers must have various minimum capacities (eg AFFF, 2.4l). It actually says 'Minimum quantity of extinguishant' and then lists them, but this is para 7.3.3 and therefore as a subclause to 7.3 must only apply to 7.3 which is headed 'Manual extinguishers', as opposed to para 7.2 which is headed 'Systems mounted' and therefore applies to mounted (and not manual) extinguishers.

This analysis is confimed (in my mind at least) by para 7.3.6 which says that they must withstand 25g deceleration force, and this requirement is repeated in para 7.2 2. The former requirement therefore only applies to 7.3 (manual) extinguishers because the latter requirement has already applied to 7.2 (mounted) extinguishers.

Ipso facto, para 7.3.3 only applies to 7.3 (manual) ectinguishers.

The upshot of all this is that, for circuit races, a Tech List 16 approved system (eg Lifeline Zero 2000 homologated system) remains acceptable.

I think.

Jeremy, do you agree with this analysis please?

[delta]

Flipping eck,Rule the day Peter becomes an Scrutineer.

[compte deGraves]

Originally Posted by delta

Flipping eck,Rule the day Peter becomes an Scrutineer.

Surely you mean "rue" otherwise be careful what you wish for.

[Peter Mallett]

Just to update this the current App K regs are here: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/5BE6AD18AB4AAEC4C125796E00489DE5/$FILE/2012_Annexe%20K_09.12.2011.pdf

[Alex Morton]

Appendix K 5.3.1
"If the battery is retained in the cockpit, it must be the dry type, be securely fixed, and have an insulated, leak proof cover."
Does this mean that all batteries that are in the cockpit have to be in a sealed battery box? Does anybody have any experience of this?

[terence]

Always best to put them into a box,in case they break loose,but I think you'll find that it should be anyway.

[Mike Bell]

Agree with that but not sure if all series require it. The Porsche Drivers Assoc regs insist the cars have batteries in 'sealed' boxes, but then see cars in other champs with battery open. My hist FF2000 for example does not have enclosed. App K cars obviously will need to comply with those requirements....

[Leo Landman]

There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Leo Landman

There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.

Just as well mine's not in yet then!

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Leo Landman

There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.

Surely thats impossible, asides the fact there's not a cage maker out there who would be able to comprehend doing such a thing!

were exactly would you put the main hoop and rear stays on a MK1 Cortina Leo ? I'm sure the same would apply for a majority of saloons and production GT's with leaf sprung rear ends ? MGB?

[Peter Mallett]

Apart from anything else what do they mean by "chassis"? Do they differentiate between separate chassis and monocoque?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Apart from anything else what do they mean by "chassis"? Do they differentiate between separate chassis and monocoque?

The old "grey area" rears it's head again. F1 spends lots of money investigating that