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Old 11 Jan 2011, 09:17 (Ref:2814087)   #26
Enrico Spaggiari
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Originally Posted by FISCracer View Post

8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement :
Compulsory for cars CT and GTS over 2000 cc
The upper part of the safety cage must comply with one of Drawings K-19, K-20 or K21.
The reinforcements may follow the curve of the roof.
For competitions without co-drivers, in the case of Drawing K-19 only, only one diagonal member may be fitted but its front connection must be on the driver’s side.
The ends of the reinforcements must be less than 100 mm from the junction between rollbars and members (not applicable to the top of the V formed by reinforcements in Drawings K-20 and K-21).
Hi everyone.
First of all, thanks for posting the link with new regs.
I have a question about the new rollbar rules. My car (Ford Mustang 1965) is fitted with a rollbar which has 1 diagonal member (drawing K-12), 1 doorbar on each side (drawing K-15) and no roof reinforcement (just main roof members). I had never have problems so far during scrutineering (both in Italy and Europe), so I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Thank you fro your reply.
Kind regards.

Enrico
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Old 11 Jan 2011, 12:47 (Ref:2814174)   #27
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Originally Posted by Enrico Spaggiari View Post
Hi everyone. I am wondering if the new modifications (red text) of article 8.3.2 onwards (diagonal member for Ct and GT over 2.000cc- roof reinforcement- doorbars) apply to all periods of cars or from period F or....
Kind regards.

Enrico
Enrico, my take on this- as someone with no authority at all on the subject, but have tried to interpret the regs - is that it is over 2 litre CT and GTS cars of all periods.

Which means from Jan 1947 (Start of 'E') through to whenever CT & GTS finish- could be mid 80s or later- get confused trying to work that bit out!

Maybe I am wrong regarding period 'E' cars but looks like that from Jan 1962 'F' onwards like your Mustang are included. But this is only my interpretation- hopefully some clarification will come from race organisers and scrutineers before our seasons start!

Makes me glad only have under 2 litre car- but perhaps FIA saving that for next year!
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Old 11 Jan 2011, 16:27 (Ref:2814283)   #28
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Thanks Mike.
Unfortunately,when new rules come out it's always a matter of interpretation... Anyway I have had the same feeling as you... over 2.000cc cars for all periods :-(
More kilos in the car, more euros out of the pocket... That's motor racing, isn't it?
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Old 11 Jan 2011, 18:27 (Ref:2814337)   #29
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More kilos in the car, more euros out of the pocket... That's motor racing, isn't it?
Certainly is. Thinking myself lucky that have only got job to do from App K changes!

Suddenly non FIA historic racing becomes more appealing!

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Old 13 Jan 2011, 17:32 (Ref:2815317)   #30
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which 99% of it is anyway!
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Old 17 May 2011, 08:37 (Ref:2881495)   #31
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rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I read recently the post about fire extinguishers needing to have the clamps changed and be larger size. Where does this come from? The blue-book?
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Old 17 May 2011, 08:43 (Ref:2881498)   #32
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I saw that too. I think its App J. Worth a look.

Article 7 here:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/79839E53797F9746C125784D005E1787/$FILE/253%20(11-12)-080311.pdf

Last edited by Peter Mallett; 17 May 2011 at 08:56.
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Old 17 May 2011, 08:58 (Ref:2881508)   #33
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I read recently the post about fire extinguishers needing to have the clamps changed and be larger size. Where does this come from? The blue-book?
It seems it is a new FIA requirement for plumbed in systems. The safety instructions from the RACB (the Belgian ASN) for the Spa Summer Classic specifically identify it as a requirement for this year - but it will undoubtably spread. All designed to catch us out at scrutineering.

I have just ordered two retaining straps for the princely sum of £4.56 +VAT - the carriage is more than the cost of the straps......

The normal size sold in the UK of 2.25 ltr is still OK - the RACB have amended their original statement of needing 2.4 ltr.
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Old 17 May 2011, 09:04 (Ref:2881509)   #34
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Where are they from Brian?
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Old 17 May 2011, 09:05 (Ref:2881510)   #35
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As above Terry. Appendix J.

BTW. As I read it AFFF is 2.4lt and all others are 2lt.

Last edited by Peter Mallett; 17 May 2011 at 09:15.
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Old 17 May 2011, 09:15 (Ref:2881511)   #36
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Errrrr,I was referring to the straps Peter.
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Old 17 May 2011, 09:16 (Ref:2881512)   #37
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Where are they from Brian?
They are from a fastener specialist found when searching for Mikalor clamps. I've ordered what they describe as T-bolt hose clamps - come in all sorts of sizes. www.hcl-clamping.co.uk.

You may want to wait until they've arrived and I can confirm that they work

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Old 17 May 2011, 09:28 (Ref:2881517)   #38
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Tweeks do them for the same money Brian,thankyou. Just ordered mine but there has been a rush on them [no,really?] £17.25 with post and packing.

[Suppose I ought to make it totally legal before I sell it.]
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Old 24 May 2011, 07:02 (Ref:2884962)   #39
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My reading of the regs is that App K 5.7.1 says that circuit cars must be equipped with at least a hand operated (manual) extinguisher complying with App J 253.7.3 (;ast updated 8 Marc 2011) but a system homolgated by the FIA per 253.7.2 (referring to Tech List 16 -recommended systems - last updated 10 Sept 2010) is recommended.

This can be taken to mean that an approved Tech List 16 system is preferred but a 253.7.3 hand held manual is a minimum (ie, both are not required).

Looking at 253.7.3, at 7.3.3, it says that manual extinguishers must have various minimum capacities (eg AFFF, 2.4l). It actually says 'Minimum quantity of extinguishant' and then lists them, but this is para 7.3.3 and therefore as a subclause to 7.3 must only apply to 7.3 which is headed 'Manual extinguishers', as opposed to para 7.2 which is headed 'Systems mounted' and therefore applies to mounted (and not manual) extinguishers.

This analysis is confimed (in my mind at least) by para 7.3.6 which says that they must withstand 25g deceleration force, and this requirement is repeated in para 7.2 2. The former requirement therefore only applies to 7.3 (manual) extinguishers because the latter requirement has already applied to 7.2 (mounted) extinguishers.

Ipso facto, para 7.3.3 only applies to 7.3 (manual) ectinguishers.

The upshot of all this is that, for circuit races, a Tech List 16 approved system (eg Lifeline Zero 2000 homologated system) remains acceptable.

I think.

Jeremy, do you agree with this analysis please?
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Old 27 May 2011, 07:10 (Ref:2886550)   #40
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Flipping eck,Rule the day Peter becomes an Scrutineer.
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Old 25 Jan 2012, 15:36 (Ref:3016840)   #41
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compte deGraves should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcompte deGraves should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Flipping eck,Rule the day Peter becomes an Scrutineer.
Surely you mean "rue" otherwise be careful what you wish for.
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Old 18 Feb 2012, 11:13 (Ref:3027518)   #42
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Just to update this the current App K regs are here: http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/5BE6AD18AB4AAEC4C125796E00489DE5/$FILE/2012_Annexe%20K_09.12.2011.pdf
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Old 13 Mar 2012, 18:52 (Ref:3040457)   #43
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Alex Morton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Appendix K - Battery boxes?

Appendix K 5.3.1
"If the battery is retained in the cockpit, it must be the dry type, be securely fixed, and have an insulated, leak proof cover."
Does this mean that all batteries that are in the cockpit have to be in a sealed battery box? Does anybody have any experience of this?
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Old 14 Mar 2012, 07:59 (Ref:3040783)   #44
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Always best to put them into a box,in case they break loose,but I think you'll find that it should be anyway.
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Old 14 Mar 2012, 10:43 (Ref:3040859)   #45
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Agree with that but not sure if all series require it. The Porsche Drivers Assoc regs insist the cars have batteries in 'sealed' boxes, but then see cars in other champs with battery open. My hist FF2000 for example does not have enclosed. App K cars obviously will need to comply with those requirements....
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 15:20 (Ref:3055848)   #46
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There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 16:48 (Ref:3055883)   #47
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There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.


Just as well mine's not in yet then!
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 08:25 (Ref:3061329)   #48
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There's another little gem hidden in 5.13.5 that could spell trouble for some folks running period F-G2 cars: it's no longer permitted to attach roll cage tubes to the chassis within 10 cm of a suspension pick-up point.
Surely thats impossible, asides the fact there's not a cage maker out there who would be able to comprehend doing such a thing!

were exactly would you put the main hoop and rear stays on a MK1 Cortina Leo ? I'm sure the same would apply for a majority of saloons and production GT's with leaf sprung rear ends ? MGB?
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 09:58 (Ref:3061382)   #49
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Apart from anything else what do they mean by "chassis"? Do they differentiate between separate chassis and monocoque?
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Old 18 Apr 2012, 16:02 (Ref:3061554)   #50
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Apart from anything else what do they mean by "chassis"? Do they differentiate between separate chassis and monocoque?
The old "grey area" rears it's head again. F1 spends lots of money investigating that
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