MotoGP Round 12: San Marino GP - Page 2

**gomick** · 6 Sep 2010, 04:54 (Ref:2754993)

RIP Tomizawa, terrible crash...

Another boring Moto GP race?

GORDON STREETER · 6 Sep 2010, 06:56 (Ref:2755013)

I couldn't believe that the race wasn't stopped, the marshals were probably under orders from race control to keep the event on shedule for the air time on the box !
Not only was the whole thing a disgrace to the unfortunate riders involved but there must have been a fair bit of debris left on the track for other riders to run over and cause more grief !.
A great shame that put a terrible dampener on what was easily the best race of the day !

djb · 6 Sep 2010, 14:05 (Ref:2755183)

condolences again, bloody hell.

thanks for the link about the track medical people describing why no red flag. Not sure if I agree but thats neither here nor there.
Redding getting bunged onto a stretcher though while in obvious pain for me was something that I would think should be brought up vis a vis procedures. At first I was worried that he had a leg or hip problem the way he didnt move properly.
All that said, that corner has riders coming in so fast, I guess I can understand wanting to get people out of the way of all that.
again, neither here nor there as I am just a tv viewer.
I would hope that at the least procedures can be looked at more closely.

again, condolences to his family.

jhansen · 6 Sep 2010, 15:07 (Ref:2755221)

RIP Tomizawa.

Matt · 6 Sep 2010, 17:27 (Ref:2755275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyewat808

Motor-sport of any kind is always dangerous

Yeah, and it's a crap load more dangerous when you're on a bike. Two kids killed in two weeks from the same thing. Something needs to be done. If that means banning bike racing in general, so be it. There's been what, 5 riders killed so far this year? That's five too many. When someone dies in a car, the cars are changed to be made safer so it doesn't happen again. Why not change the bikes so crap like this doesn't happen?

Quote:

Another dark day for all motor-sports fans, and for the Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari.

This was at Misano, not Imola.

chunder · 6 Sep 2010, 18:28 (Ref:2755316)

No need really for this kind of over reaction. People die pursuing their dreams in all sorts of sport. It's just that in our sport injury and accident are far more likely to happen due to its nature.

Car racing has been totally manickled by safety. Ask a rider like Rutter, McGuinness, Rossi, Stoner, Bayliss, Edwards about their fave corners and they will be the scary ones!

Posts like yours are disrespectful and rather typical of modern society I'm afraid.

Matt · 6 Sep 2010, 19:10 (Ref:2755344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

No need really for this kind of over reaction. People die pursuing their dreams in all sorts of sport. It's just that in our sport injury and accident are far more likely to happen due to its nature.

Car racing has been totally manickled by safety. Ask a rider like Rutter, McGuinness, Rossi, Stoner, Bayliss, Edwards about their fave corners and they will be the scary ones!

Posts like yours are disrespectful and rather typical of modern society I'm afraid.

Yes,t he scary corners are the best, as they are in a car. It's just better to know if you go off on a 'scary' corner, you're gonna come out fine, cause you've actually got stuff around you to protect yourself.

jhansen · 6 Sep 2010, 19:33 (Ref:2755363)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Yeah, and it's a crap load more dangerous when you're on a bike. Two kids killed in two weeks from the same thing. Something needs to be done. If that means banning bike racing in general, so be it. There's been what, 5 riders killed so far this year? That's five too many. When someone dies in a car, the cars are changed to be made safer so it doesn't happen again. Why not change the bikes so crap like this doesn't happen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes,t he scary corners are the best, as they are in a car. It's just better to know if you go off on a 'scary' corner, you're gonna come out fine, cause you've actually got stuff around you to protect yourself.

Interesting that you are so eager to take away the freedoms of others. I wonder how you would react if someone with zero association with you could compell others to take your freedoms away? I find these reactions amazing. Safety is continually improving, but motorsport will always be dangerous. These heros are willing to risk it all to do what they love, and to entertain us in the process. To take that away from them is more archaic than letting them race IMO.

Matt · 6 Sep 2010, 19:41 (Ref:2755373)

Safety may be 'improving,' but you'll still be flung off and having an extremely high chance of getting seriously injured or killed.

This is all like Formula One racing in the sixties.

chunder · 6 Sep 2010, 21:30 (Ref:2755414)

Well perhaps that is why we as fans have more respect for bike racers than F1 drivers.

They seem to crash into each otehr with gay abandon, and why? Because when they do crash there is little consequence other than a loss of points! I htink we have the right idea on bikes.

F1 racing in the sixties was amazing, what's your point!!

jhansen · 6 Sep 2010, 21:33 (Ref:2755415)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Safety may be 'improving,' but you'll still be flung off and having an extremely high chance of getting seriously injured or killed.

You still didn't answer why it's ok to preempt someone's decision...

As long as the spectators, crew, and track workers are safe; let the racers race. End of story.

djb · 7 Sep 2010, 01:57 (Ref:2755468)

Matt, I have seen your name here on 10/10ths for a while, but dont really remember stuff you have written, so I dont "know" you on this forum. I am however surprised by your comments, given that you follow motorsport.
As others have stated, part of the huge respect I have for bike racers (and partly from my personal experience on track on a bike, as well as an almost daily bicycle user in a city) is that there is a degree of precision and mutual respect between racers because of the fact that if you mess up, you do in fact fall off a bike at whatever speed.

Bike racing has an inherent respect between racers that you do not see in car racing, not nowadays, and especially not in stock car racing (or the BTCC just to show I am not Amercian bashing) and so the racing is nearly always clean, passing is unaffected by aero this and aero that. For me, it is pure pure racing with a level of respect and awareness that can be related to 50s or 60s GP racing because of the risks.

as to your comments, bikes dont break down as much as before, but specifically the tires are waaaaaaay better than even 10-15 years ago. Tracks are generally safer, and lets face it, we are not even touching on the topic of something like the Isle of Mann TT, which I have trouble watching.

Proper tracks are another thing, and even in my lifetime, bike racing will always be more dangerous than car racing. I suspect more developments will be done in "airbag" leathers, but the types of incidents that happened in the last week or so can always happen. They usually dont.

and lets face it, this week, god-knows how many joe-schmo Americans died in cars because of drunk drivers or whatever?
how many gun deaths were there because some dumb-ass/drunk/impulsive young man had easy access to a gun?

for me, THESE are types of societal issues that deserve a rant, not this.

Stating that bike racing should be banned because of these terribley unfortunate events is really an odd reaction from someone who follows motorsport, especially from someone from a country that in some states allow people to ride motorcycles without helmets ("Live Free or Die" New Hampshire--that is the logo on the NH license plates btw) or to allow people to walk around with hidden handguns, or handguns on your hip into the grocery store....

chunder · 7 Sep 2010, 07:38 (Ref:2755511)

Lol nice touch bringing in gun kaw to a bike conversation! Was that a bet heh!!

djb · 7 Sep 2010, 14:46 (Ref:2755730)

nope chund, I wasnt being a smartass. Just that when Matt made the comment that bike racing should be banned because of fatalities, well it just struck me how that in the States, the examples I mentioned result in all kinds of fatalities. The gun thing is a real difference in attitude between our two countries, with gun related deaths in the states compared to Canada far far outweighing the population diff between the two countries.

Knowlesy · 7 Sep 2010, 18:08 (Ref:2755834)

Banning bike racing would be crazy. It is a wonderful sport.

**** happens sometimes. Prior to this there had been no deaths in any of the MotoGP classes for over six years, and this was a freak accident.

This is life.

JohnnyFiama · 8 Sep 2010, 07:10 (Ref:2756054)

I can only presume Matt is trying to get a reaction but I'll bite.... if you look at the statistics of injuries and deaths if you ban motorbike racing you'd be banning a lot of other sports first.... why not just stay in bed all day?

Interesting fact of the day:

"In the US alone, there were more than 20,000 reported injuries last year alone, making cheerleading the world’s most injury-prone sport in the world for women."

I see no calls to ban cheerleaders.....

cg7aa · 9 Sep 2010, 21:59 (Ref:2757005)

Toby Moody - Remembering Shoya Tomizawa

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3031

Dani Filth · 16 Dec 2010, 21:28 (Ref:2805336)

in case there's somebody that hasn't read it .. Dennis Noyes and poems
http://chimazo.blogspot.com/2009/09/...nis-noyes.html

djb · 16 Dec 2010, 22:46 (Ref:2805358)

thanks Dani, you know, I have always liked Noyes. No bull****, no theatrics, i have always liked his way of talking about stuff and this bit he wrote is right on.
When he did the tv stuff for motogp years back, he wasnt as slick on camera,but for me that didnt matter. It was his take on things and the no baloney aspect of it that I respected, and this piece is a great, yet sad example that.

thanks again, I enjoyed reading that.

and I do agree that there is an 'us and them' thing between people who participate in activities with serious consequences.

Andy77 · 17 Dec 2010, 08:58 (Ref:2805474)

I really like the end passage, I must say. But at one point I disagree a bit. The fans of the sport group is a wide mish-mash mix up between us and them.

And yes, it indeed is racing.

2000yellow360 · 17 Dec 2010, 16:26 (Ref:2805664)

Years ago, in the AMA, we started a Union with the idea of making the tracks safer. More than a few of my friends ended up in a chair or dead. John Ulrich started the Air Fence Action Fund to make sure that people, if they crashed, didn't have to pay the ultimate price.

Roberts, Senior also had more than a little hand in attempting to make the tracks safer. Indeed, there are safety standards for MotoGP races, and very few tracks can qualify.

I think that we need to rethink the process. If you fall, and there isn't anything to hit, you most probably survive, without serious injury, life changing injury. That is good, and it doesn't take away from the sport.

If you want to call that taking away people's freedom, then so be it, but it is common sense.

From someone who's been there.

Art

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