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23 Jun 2023, 20:13 (Ref:4165153) | #26 | ||
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That "authority" was integral to the parity process. Once the teams themselves sensed blood in the water they struck, as is their prerogative. We have a situation where Supercars have essentially had their pants pulled down by Penske, so nobody trusts what they say, but the teams themselves are extremely bias and will sook and whinge even if they have an advantage. So it's chaos, no leadership The substitute teacher is filling in today and boy, don't the kids know it... |
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24 Jun 2023, 01:30 (Ref:4165157) | #27 | |
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24 Jun 2023, 01:37 (Ref:4165158) | #28 | |
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It was the same when holden were the only manufacturer in supercars, pooring in more $$$ and were wiping the floor with the opposition, very strange that you weren't concerned about that.
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26 Jun 2023, 04:47 (Ref:4165483) | #29 | ||
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I have no dog in this fight but my idea of parity for this class is
-close to equal number of wins between the 2 manufacturers -whichever make wins the Championship the other one wins Bathurst It is results that mean parity to me.How they get to that is irrelevant in a self called parity class. |
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26 Jun 2023, 08:17 (Ref:4165501) | #30 | ||
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26 Jun 2023, 08:20 (Ref:4165502) | #31 | ||
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This is absolutely not what parity is about.
You want success ballast or something. Parity is to give each make EQUAL TECHNICAL CHANCE of winning. Not about making the racing socialist so even the **** teams can win. |
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26 Jun 2023, 08:26 (Ref:4165508) | #32 | ||
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26 Jun 2023, 08:38 (Ref:4165510) | #33 | ||
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Not a parity topic, and posted elsewhere.
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26 Jun 2023, 22:31 (Ref:4165616) | #34 | ||||
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2022 Teams Championship 1 Red Bull Ampol Racing 5900pts 2 Shell V-Power Racing Team 5172 -728 3 Tickford Racing 4656 -1244 4 Walkinshaw Andretti United 4448 -1452 5 Penrite Racing 3866 -2034 6 Coca-Cola Racing by Erebus 3856 -2044 7 Team 18 3401 -2499 8 Brad Jones Racing 3260 -2640 9 Truck Assist Racing 2502 -3398 10 Nulon Racing 2418 -3482 The upturn in form by every single one of the 6th to 10th placed teams seems beyond coincidence. Fox Sports notes the inexplicable improvement by General Motors teams: Quote:
Hmm... Conversely, the downturn by every single one of the 2nd to 5th placed teams seems beyond coincidence too. They are all different teams and different engineering groups in those 6th-10th placed teams and 2nd-5th placed teams respectively, so you wouldn't expect such a body shape-related trend if performance is independent of what body shape of car you are running. The only tenuous link is that there are a lot of former 888 customer teams running the Camaro body shape that may have been advantaged by the Gen 3 car favouring experience with a 888-style suspension setup, which the Gen 3 car wasn't supposed to favour -- it was supposed to be a neutral, impartial control suspension despite being designed by 888. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 26 Jun 2023 at 23:01. |
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27 Jun 2023, 03:46 (Ref:4165631) | #35 | |||
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Parity in the eyes of fans is all about results.No matter what technical numbers are offered no one can believe that there is parity between Camaro’s and Mustangs in 2023.If Ford fans get sick of being whipping boys and walk away there goes half your fan base. I’m not even a Supercars fan.Except for the races I went to at Albert Park I have only watched 1 Newcastle race onTV.A quick look at Natsoft results tells me the state of car parity. |
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27 Jun 2023, 05:04 (Ref:4165632) | #36 | |||
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Teams who do not deserve to win should not win. We are not doing participation trophies. Meanwhile Supercars are out testing some new Ford engine parts and potentially new aero on one of Tickford's cars. Despite ALL the whining, Supercars responds every time there's a complaint, and this has to be down to Ford's homologation team and engine builder. |
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27 Jun 2023, 06:27 (Ref:4165633) | #37 | |
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Complete technical parity can never be achieved.
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27 Jun 2023, 07:35 (Ref:4165634) | #38 | |
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Carrera Cup and the Toyota 86 Series have no problem achieving it. A Mustang Cup would have simplified matters, pending finding a second manufacturer to financially commit to the series. The Brasil Stock Car series has often operated as a one-make cup in times when there was no second manufacturer.
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27 Jun 2023, 21:02 (Ref:4165718) | #39 | |||
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It has been achieved before (between two makes at least) but there's no question that with the current cars both being 2 door coupes for the first time & also having different engine sizes and configurations for the first time that it appears to be harder than it was. Maybe they'll "get there" or maybe they won't - but personally I don't think that the concept of technical parity should be discarded just because it is hard - that is part of the challenge of running the sport. Ultimately it may prove to be a fruitless exercise, particularly with the different engines but it's too early to throw it in the bin just yet.
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27 Jun 2023, 23:22 (Ref:4165724) | #40 | |||
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Gen 3 could've been that, but they didn't make sure to do it. Very odd. If there are going to be only Detroit pony cars, I don't think it really matters if there is one model or two as the Camaro and Mustang are very similar and they are both rare cars on the road (the Camaro especially so). It would have been more logical to prioritize getting some of the turbocharged Asian and European sportscars (back) out there in Gen 3, rather than a second pony car in addition to the Mustang IMO. Ideally a Ford Mustang v Nissan Z format would've been better for Gen 3 if only two makes could be managed, it would have restored Nissan's prominent place in the Australia Touring Car Championship and avoided the odd issue of the obscure (in Australia) Chevrolet brand being very prominent which seems rather a marketing dead-end. With very different wheelbases and engine types and so on, it would have forced the hand of organisers to go to Balance-of-Performance with sliding ballast and boost and throttle restrictors and so on, which is an easier way to equalise cars. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 27 Jun 2023 at 23:34. |
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27 Jun 2023, 23:33 (Ref:4165726) | #41 | ||||
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
27 Jun 2023, 23:53 (Ref:4165727) | #42 | ||
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28 Jun 2023, 01:46 (Ref:4165736) | #43 | ||
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28 Jun 2023, 09:55 (Ref:4165753) | #44 | |
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Is it such a crazy idea to organize a test day with T8 and DJR (maybe Tickford instead) and swap the cars? Both teams have incentive to prove the competitors car is fast so there's no chance of sandbagging.
Surely the cars are similar enough now it shouldn't take long to adjust to any set-up nuance's. |
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28 Jun 2023, 10:11 (Ref:4165754) | #45 | ||
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I'd say they have something in mind in terms of a laptime gain, so they are testing the Mustang back to back with parts they've created.
I don't mind going where the science leads us, but Ford's not inspiring confidence with the shifting sands of their excuses. |
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29 Jun 2023, 04:44 (Ref:4165814) | #46 | |||
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29 Jun 2023, 05:14 (Ref:4165817) | #47 | |||
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But will the teams actually improve the things costing them results? Neither Tickford or DJR seem to want to acknowledge the fact that they will just throw away more potential race wins with impetuous driving or rubbish pit stops and strategy. |
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29 Jun 2023, 23:49 (Ref:4165896) | #48 | |
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1 Jul 2023, 02:03 (Ref:4166031) | #49 | |
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What to expect from the Supercars parity review
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/06/30...parity-review/ |
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4 Jul 2023, 09:16 (Ref:4166642) | #50 | ||
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banksie!!! |
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