GT3 best sportscar category to date?

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Chiana

LMP3 with half the price tag and seemingly wide array of places to go now, and that number ever increasing, may start luring people away from GT3. Which in my view would be a very welcomed development.

That statement resonates with my viewpoint. I wish sportscar racing was solely about prototypes. GT(LM,E,3,4,.*) don't resonate with me. These machines deliver great competition, but to me aren't exciting enough. More downforce please. I'd rather have no racing and dozens of prototypes driving exactly on their limit in a 24h quali-lap-shootout than a train of cars barging each other for posititon Anyways, not here to argue, but to break the confirmation bias a bit.

[Artur]

Well, if I'm not mistaking you with somebody else, we completely disagree about the slowing down of LMP1s, Ephaeton, but our views on prototypes and GTs are exactly the same.

I don't care at all about GT cars and also wish only prototypes raced. Racing is more than just cars swapping positions to me. It's also necessary lot's of speed from the vehicles in order to get me really excited about it.

GT cars simply do not elate me and that's why I don't share all the enthusiasm about the Blancpain series. I don't care about it's night races, calendar with more unusual race tracks or variety of brands. In the end, it just a bunch of slow cars

I'm quite sure we're a minority, though

[Deleted]

I started off as GT fan but eventually switched over when I realized how awful it had become in evolution. GT3 and current LMGTE in particular are pretty much joke to me.

But that's not to say I didn't enjoy prototypes before too. The technological side and speed are big attractions there. I've found whole lot of great things after concentrating almost exclusively on them.

GTs are still great traffic makers for protos though, that's fine

[Matt]

GT3 is great.

Just wish SRO would enforce the customer cars being available thing so we don't run into the thing that's currently happening with the Cadillac.

[nasportscar]

Originally Posted by Matt

GT3 is great.

Just wish SRO would enforce the customer cars being available thing so we don't run into the thing that's currently happening with the Cadillac.

Bingo. I would be fine with a factory program for year 1 as the car is being developed and raced simultaneously, but after that, it should be privateer only. The biggest problem is that series are so dependent on manufacturer partners now, they have a BIG push, like we see with Caddy. That would be a huge loss for PWC if they said, "You can't race unless you also sell cars to (for example) Blackdog and Stevenson."

That being said, I think the Caddy is actually balanced (in terms of performance) very nicely against the competition. While it's a great car, I do not think it's the best car on the grid - an old Porsche 997 GT3 would have easily won the championship if their driver was able to do the full season. Two other drivers would have been up there ahead of the Caddy in the standings if win points weren't taken away or didn't pull out of two races.

[FIRE]

- Cars should be available to customers
- Limit amount of technical updates

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

That statement resonates with my viewpoint. I wish sportscar racing was solely about prototypes. GT(LM,E,3,4,.*) don't resonate with me. These machines deliver great competition, but to me aren't exciting enough. More downforce please. I'd rather have no racing and dozens of prototypes driving exactly on their limit in a 24h quali-lap-shootout than a train of cars barging each other for posititon Anyways, not here to argue, but to break the confirmation bias a bit.

I agree with you, but because I'm more of a GT guy than a prototype guy. I like the tech and the speed of the P1's, but P2 et al just leaves me cold. I have liked GT3 since its inception in 2006, but not really warmed to GTE until now. None the less, I would really like to see a proper world GT championship. Until then, BES rocks my boat enough.

[nasportscar]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

I would really like to see a proper world GT championship. Until then, BES rocks my boat enough.

The new Intercontinental GT Challenge is getting close

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

I agree with you, but because I'm more of a GT guy than a prototype guy. I like the tech and the speed of the P1's, but P2 et al just leaves me cold. I have liked GT3 since its inception in 2006, but not really warmed to GTE until now. None the less, I would really like to see a proper world GT championship. Until then, BES rocks my boat enough.

I agree LMP2 has never done anything to get me excited. GTE and LMP1 in the WEC is far more interesting and prestigious. As a comparison I'll take SRO/BES over something like the ELMS anytime.

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by nasportscar

The new Intercontinental GT Challenge is getting close

It is at least a good step in the right direction.

[Rodger Davies]

Not sure if I'm alone, but I have zero interest in a GT World Championship.

There are some seriously good regional championships, in Europe, the US, Asia and some amazing races on legendary circuits that include these cars, like the N24, Spa 24, Bathurst 12 Hour, Macau etc.

So to me, the idea of a world championship is just lacking. These prestigious events already exist and attract the best of the best; a world championship would be another case of 'who can find the quickest drivers with funding' and I can't imagine it not visiting tediously dull venues. Case in point, COTA as one third of this year's attempt.

Basically, the field is too diverse for a world championship to be thrown into it. In my ideal world, I'd love to see a BES equivalent on three continents, where the Pro class does the best races of each and the other classes do their regional championships, but that's never going to happen.

I'm rambling here, so I'll stop, but I'll leave a question and see if anyone answers: in your opinion, if you picked 20 car/team/driver combinations from global GT3 racing last year (2015), for a World Championship, what would they be?


To the OP; I love this category, it's become so much more than I thought it ever would do. I was a huge cynic at first, even after I'd seen the first ever race of the category at Silverstone in person, but it's really win me over. Originally, I couldn't stand the concept of BoP, but I have since begun to appreciate its honesty and relative transparency, when it's clear this has been going on for a long, long time one way or another. I still think it's a shame that GT3 and GTE didn't merge, and I wish the ACO would stop meddling and let SRO develop the category as they see fit (I don't always agree with them, such as with track-specific BoP, but it would be better than 'GT Wars' and Ratel has proven me wrong with his ideas time and time again).

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Not sure if I'm alone, but I have zero interest in a GT World Championship.

There are some seriously good regional championships, in Europe, the US, Asia and some amazing races on legendary circuits that include these cars, like the N24, Spa 24, Bathurst 12 Hour, Macau etc.

So to me, the idea of a world championship is just lacking. These prestigious events already exist and attract the best of the best; a world championship would be another case of 'who can find the quickest drivers with funding' and I can't imagine it not visiting tediously dull venues. Case in point, COTA as one third of this year's attempt.

Basically, the field is too diverse for a world championship to be thrown into it. In my ideal world, I'd love to see a BES equivalent on three continents, where the Pro class does the best races of each and the other classes do their regional championships, but that's never going to happen.

I'm rambling here, so I'll stop, but I'll leave a question and see if anyone answers: in your opinion, if you picked 20 car/team/driver combinations from global GT3 racing last year (2015), for a World Championship, what would they be?


To the OP; I love this category, it's become so much more than I thought it ever would do. I was a huge cynic at first, even after I'd seen the first ever race of the category at Silverstone in person, but it's really win me over. Originally, I couldn't stand the concept of BoP, but I have since begun to appreciate its honesty and relative transparency, when it's clear this has been going on for a long, long time one way or another. I still think it's a shame that GT3 and GTE didn't merge, and I wish the ACO would stop meddling and let SRO develop the category as they see fit (I don't always agree with them, such as with track-specific BoP, but it would be better than 'GT Wars' and Ratel has proven me wrong with his ideas time and time again).

I love Ratel. I think if you rank some of the sportscar personalities who have had the most positive influence on the sport in the past 20 years. I rank Ratel right up there for sure.

[Mt. Lynx]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Not sure if I'm alone, but I have zero interest in a GT World Championship.

There are some seriously good regional championships, in Europe, the US, Asia and some amazing races on legendary circuits that include these cars, like the N24, Spa 24, Bathurst 12 Hour, Macau etc.

So to me, the idea of a world championship is just lacking. These prestigious events already exist and attract the best of the best; a world championship would be another case of 'who can find the quickest drivers with funding' and I can't imagine it not visiting tediously dull venues. Case in point, COTA as one third of this year's attempt.

Basically, the field is too diverse for a world championship to be thrown into it. In my ideal world, I'd love to see a BES equivalent on three continents, where the Pro class does the best races of each and the other classes do their regional championships, but that's never going to happen.

I'm rambling here, so I'll stop, but I'll leave a question and see if anyone answers: in your opinion, if you picked 20 car/team/driver combinations from global GT3 racing last year (2015), for a World Championship, what would they be?


To the OP; I love this category, it's become so much more than I thought it ever would do. I was a huge cynic at first, even after I'd seen the first ever race of the category at Silverstone in person, but it's really win me over. Originally, I couldn't stand the concept of BoP, but I have since begun to appreciate its honesty and relative transparency, when it's clear this has been going on for a long, long time one way or another. I still think it's a shame that GT3 and GTE didn't merge, and I wish the ACO would stop meddling and let SRO develop the category as they see fit (I don't always agree with them, such as with track-specific BoP, but it would be better than 'GT Wars' and Ratel has proven me wrong with his ideas time and time again).

If I could do world GT championship, this would be it:


Bathurst 12h
Suzuka 3h
Abu Dhabi 1+1h
Mallorca stage rally
Monza 3h
Spa 12h
Goodwood hillclimb best of 3
Monaco 1+1h
Laguna Seca 3h
Martinsville oval 200
Long Beach 1+1h
Sebring 12h

3h 2 pitstops 3 drivers/car
1+1h qually race one driver/car (driver not eligiable for main race), main race 1 pitstop 2 drivers/car.
Martinsville 2 pitstops
Goodwood 3 drivers/car
Rally 2 days. All drivers drive each stage.

2 cars/brand - 15 brands. All cars run by a single organisation. Mfg support limited to parts and travel. 4 tire mfgs that support 5 brands each.

The cars are the stars.

Yeah, yeah, dream on...

Seriously though, the costs are worrying, and needs attention.

And I'm not sure what to make of the ACO GT3 stuff.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Not sure if I'm alone, but I have zero interest in a GT World Championship.

There are some seriously good regional championships, in Europe, the US, Asia and some amazing races on legendary circuits that include these cars, like the N24, Spa 24, Bathurst 12 Hour, Macau etc.

So to me, the idea of a world championship is just lacking. These prestigious events already exist and attract the best of the best; a world championship would be another case of 'who can find the quickest drivers with funding' and I can't imagine it not visiting tediously dull venues. Case in point, COTA as one third of this year's attempt.

Basically, the field is too diverse for a world championship to be thrown into it. In my ideal world, I'd love to see a BES equivalent on three continents, where the Pro class does the best races of each and the other classes do their regional championships, but that's never going to happen.

I'm rambling here, so I'll stop, but I'll leave a question and see if anyone answers: in your opinion, if you picked 20 car/team/driver combinations from global GT3 racing last year (2015), for a World Championship, what would they be?


To the OP; I love this category, it's become so much more than I thought it ever would do. I was a huge cynic at first, even after I'd seen the first ever race of the category at Silverstone in person, but it's really win me over. Originally, I couldn't stand the concept of BoP, but I have since begun to appreciate its honesty and relative transparency, when it's clear this has been going on for a long, long time one way or another. I still think it's a shame that GT3 and GTE didn't merge, and I wish the ACO would stop meddling and let SRO develop the category as they see fit (I don't always agree with them, such as with track-specific BoP, but it would be better than 'GT Wars' and Ratel has proven me wrong with his ideas time and time again).

I agree with you that there maybe isn't a need for a 'World Championship' for GT3.

I think WEC and LM series cover that kind of international stage racing, and I guess that makes Le Mans the World Cup final of Motorsport.

To me the beauty of GT3 is the fact is universal yet regional at the same time. You can see the same type of car run Bathurst as Spa, yet what makes both those races great are the regional customer teams fighting above their weight.

I love the new Audi GT3, and seeing it win races like Sepang 12h, and Dubai 24h back to back is pretty fun, but seeing Team WRT roll around the world and tick those race wins off one by one could get a little samey.

Don't get me wrong, I like WRT, and they are great supporters of GT3, but I think GT3 is better when you get to watch an Aus GT race with the local talent, then the next weekend catch a PWC race with totally different guys, totally different dynamics, and totally different outcomes using the same machinery.

Diversity is what is darn cool about GT3 and it'd be a shame for it all to become overly globalised.

I think the intercontinental challenge is the furthest it should go.

Essay over

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

To me the beauty of GT3 is the fact is universal yet regional at the same time. You can see the same type of car run Bathurst as Spa, yet what makes both those races great are the regional customer teams fighting above their weight.

Diversity is what is darn cool about GT3 and it'd be a shame for it all to become overly globalised.

I think the intercontinental challenge is the furthest it should go.

Essay over

Summed up nicely.

I go back to the days when the difference between a race car and a sports car was the the sports car was registered and you drove it to the meet rather than trailer it. In the MG days you took the guards and spare wheel of and you had a racing car.
Rose coloured glasses but the great days of sports cars to me were the 50's and early 60's when to race in sports car events, even Le Mans, the car had to be a road going proposition. Think C and D types, Aston DBs, Ferrari LM series, Mercedes 300sl, Maserati 300s, Coopers Lotus 11s etc.

Sports car racing then was the much more important to fans and the manufacturers than the then infant F1. The problem now with LMP is the P for prototype. GT, and particularly GT3 gets back to the era when you could buy a car which was competitive, and still ( theoretically) drive it on the road legally.

The multitude of series is the great thing about GT3, let's keep it that way.

[Accident]

Now that the BoP has felt a little more stable I've warmed to it a bit, but my issue with it now is that the grids are feeling a bit "samey." I get that it seems pretty odd to complain about Audi R8s and Mercedes SLS and Ferrari 458s, but it sorta seems like we are seeing the same cars over and over everywhere in the world.

Not that they aren't really cool cars, but not many of them feel that "special" anymore. Most of the "special" GT3 cars only run in one series, and yeah I suppose that could be viewed as what makes them special, but I'd like to see it spread around a little.

I'd like to see the Cadillacs show up some places, the Callaway cars run something other than just ADAC GT, Reiter to drag out the old Gallardo or Camaro, the Lexus to show up or a few of the Riley Vipers to turn up somewhere. Would help mix up the grids so it isn't always just 10 Audis and 4 Mercedes and 5 BMWs and 8 Ferraris (and soon 20 Huracans).

Luckily though I actually quite like the new Mercedes, so I'll finally have something to sort of generally cheer for on the grids with that only have the common cars.

[BSchneiderFan]

Whatever became of the GT3 Camaro?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I agree with you that there maybe isn't a need for a 'World Championship' for GT3.

What I'd like to see is a year long World Ranking a la ATP/WTA tennis, i.e. a system that includes every GT3-race in the world and pays points according to the significance of the event - and perhaps also its duration and the number of GT3s entered. Not sure if that last part would complicate it too much, though.

Could lead to international star drivers showing up to all kinds of small series late season races to hamster a few more points, which would be kinda cool.

[MaskedRacer]

I noticed that too in that you have your mainstream GT3 cars which can be seen on every continent with GT3 racing like Audi, Ferarri, and Porsche. But then that is followed by your one off more unique brands that we wish would be appear in more than one series such as Cadillac with PWC, Jaguar with BES, Callaways in ADAC, Dodge in IMSA, and soon Lexus in IMSA. What about the Renault? I saw that for the first time at Dubai? Will that car get traction perhaps? Also I would mark out if Cadillac showed up in a SRO race of some type.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

I noticed that too in that you have your mainstream GT3 cars which can be seen on every continent with GT3 racing like Audi, Ferarri, and Porsche. But then that is followed by your one off more unique brands that we wish would be appear in more than one series such as Cadillac with PWC, Jaguar with BES, Callaways in ADAC, Dodge in IMSA, and soon Lexus in IMSA. What about the Renault? I saw that for the first time at Dubai? Will that car get traction perhaps? Also I would mark out if Cadillac showed up in a SRO race of some type.

The Renault RS.01 is nationally homologised in France only, it was allowed in the Gulf 12h and Dubai 24h as they are open to national homologations, but Blancpain and other international series wouldn't accept it.

It's a shame, the Renault is pretty interesting, I think all they need to do get FIA homologation is build enough road going versions..

Cadillac is fully homologated so could in theory do any GT3 series worldwide

[kevin993]

AMG GT3 pricing: Euro388k for endurance configuration and Euro372k for sprint spec. A little less than the SLS GT3 was priced when it rolled out in 2010.