History of the Gibson Nissan GTR

[GTRMagic]

If the Skyline wouldnt have improved to that kind of time in 11 seasons I will eat my hat!

[William Dale Jr]

Well, run it in it's homologated spec (without the extra weight and pop-off valves), had it received the same sort of development over the last 12 years that the V8's are receiving now, plus advances in tyre technology, ECU management and programming, I don't see why a GTR couldn't at the very least get into the eights.

[Conrod Kieron]

Heres some stats from an Oct 94 Motor mag -

Fastest qualifying lap in GTR - 2.12.62 Bathurst 93
Fastest race lap in GTR - 2.14.5 Bathurst 93

Commodore Qualifying 2.12.829 Bathurst 93
Commodore race lap 2.12.58 (23/8/94)

So early days into V8sc development and the Commodore stacks up well against the well developed GTR.

Question would be how much further could the GTR be developed?

[GTRMagic]

Not sure how you have Bathurst 1993 stats for the GT-R, it was binned at the end of 1992

[Bigguy]

Sheesh! Reality pills please!

Some people seem to have no idea how much turbo technology has advanced in the past twelve years, let alone shock, suspension, aero and tyre technology. Hasn't anybody read that the current 0-300kmh record is 13.5 seconds? Heck I saw a video of an HKS GTR doing it in 17 seconds over three years ago!

Some people seem to believe the hype that supercars are something special... they are a very restricted class, which only look really fast because they are running against each other.

I am of course not talking about a GTR driven by Joe Bloggs, I am assuming a fully worked GTR, driven by a pro type driver with equivalent skills to one of the top ten V8 drivers.

Either way, I for one would love to see such a car running in Australia.

(Just as a referent point, Wayne Boatwright lapped Eastern Creek >two years ago< in his >road< STi (on slicks) only 15 seconds slower than this year's (Main Event) Supercar pole time. A race-prepped GTR would easily bridge that gap without raising a sweat.)

[Gaz170]

It's really a question where the answer cannot be proven either way. An evolution of the GTR would probably be faster than a Supercar, but then again, who knows what rules & regulations they may of had to conform to now?
And just remember, Dick's Sierras outpaced the Falcon easily in the early days, how fast would an evolution of the Sierra be now?????

[mixxer]

its nice to dream but forget about it its like trying to compare drivers from different era's .............. cant be done too many variables

[chunterer]

I guess that the Sierra was blamed for the death of Group A in Europe and then the Skyline did the same in Australia being built specifically to deal with the Sierra!?

Still think that Group A was the right regs, but some kind of restrictions on turbo charging was needed to encourage further maunfacturers to enter series around the world

[Chucky]

In order for an R34 GTR (in NC guise) to even be equal to a V8 Superbus. it would be 2-3 sec quicker than the rest of the NC field and would therefore be paritised into oblivion.

While I am not defending the dinosaur brigade, I can't see a GTR doing that.

[GTRMagic]

A GT-R in Nations Cup spec wouldnt be capable of it.. or maybe for a few laps but not for 24hrs anyway.

The boost would be restricted like in the Group A days, the car would be leadened to make it slower, and/or the tyre size would be reviewed.

The primary problem with a parity-controlled formula is that there is always the possibility of a car not running on its merits to avoid a review....

[Conrod Kieron]

Oops, wrong year for the GTR times GTRMagic, should have been 1991.

I posted the reality pills bigguy with the times above. As you can see the VP V8SC Commodore of a similar era was in the ballpark with the GTR, you have to remember the V8's have also advanced a decade later too.

I wouldn't mind seeing it make a comeback in the premier class, maybe in 2wd guise which would take away its chief advantage over race distance.

DJ's Sierras were at the end of there development, the Falcons at the beginning, iirc the Falcon was actually quicker across the top of Bathurst but slower up mountain straight and down Conrod.

[GTRMagic]

There is a 4 door Japanese Skyline with some of the GT-R running gear that could be used (there are loads of them in the grey import used car yards around and about) I guess, but I am not sure what relevance Nissan would get from it given that they are a Maxima/Pulsar car company now

A sports sedan RWD hybrid mongrel Maxima with GT-R RWD running gear could be built I guess... but there is still not pushrod engine laying around... unless the Nissan runs a diesel or something

[prn 31]

I've just finished reading Graeme Williams' history and it was a fine read.

I'm not interested in fuelling the GTR vs Supercar debate, I'm more interested in the professionalism of Group A and the depth of the fields competing.

Its amazing to think that Touring Cars were almost on their kness in the early 90's. If it wasn't for the cigarette money and manufacturer support (Nissan and BMW) it could've died. Added to the fact the expense that Holden/TWR went to homologating the VN only to virtually walk away from the series. Jeez Larry Perkins was running a VL on a shoestring!

The budget and professionalism that was Gibson motorsport in the GTR days was so far beyond its competition it would be like HRT running its teeam against the Konica runners. The enginerring capabilities were a match for anything coming out of Japan, and a lot of components went back there. I'm sure that the Australian GTRs were better developed than anywhere else in the world.

The Australian authority on the racing GTRs is a guy called Mark Hooker. He is secretary of the Sydney Skyline Club and has written several articles on the racers for Zoom and has spoken to all the "players" from Gibson Motorsport, he is a good mate of Fred's. Mark helps out Terry Ashwood with his Skylines (he brought the Gibson collection and has seven factory Nissans - every model except a DR30) and even wears a period Gibson Motorsport shirt at the track!

Mark mentioned some of the $$$ involved at the time and they are mindboggling! Cranks were $25K, complete engines were over $100K and there would be four in the truck at every race meeting. Gibson Motorsport built up the GIO GTR for Bob Forbes and Fred handed an invoice to Bob for $650K (I think this included a spares package!)

Its just a pity that Fred had to sell the 91 Bathurst winner to Asia, where I believe it still resides, somewhere in Bangkok. Maybe GTRMagic one of your snouts knows exactly where it is? Terry Ashwood owns the 92 Bathurst winner (Skaife's ATCC winner?), Bob Forbes still has the GIO GTR and Lindsay Fox has one (which?)

Were there four or five race GTRs all told??

[GTRMagic]

I thought there was a DR30 in the collection... it has the Gibson Collection tag on it anyway

[prn 31]

GTR, you maybe right. I know the collection includes a Bluebird, the EXA Turbo, a bent Gazelle, a HR31 (to go with the Skaife HR31 Ashwood already owned) and of course Godzilla in Winfield colours - such an awesome looking car that always draws a crowd!

Couple more Skyline questions: - why were Garry Scott and George Fury dropped? There never was much publicity at the time. Also Nissan kept there motorsport operation running in 85 while developing the DR30, but didn't start racing until '86 - is this when it became Gibson Motorsport?

Also GTR, what about the Bangkok Godzilla? If anyone should know its you.

[GTRMagic]

I thought the Nissan team became Gibson Motorsport after the Bluebird program, in 1985. A shame Seton didnt get a gig somewhere for the 1985 Bathurst, as it did George Fury well to take the BMW 635 for a burn

I never totally understood why Garry Scott left the Nissan team. He was the gun qualifier in the Nissan team in 1986 at Bathurst, when the other car had issues with a stiff roll cage and a poorly set suspension.

Garry was a major talent, and didnt leave the team to retire from the sport, as he popped up a year later in an HDT car, well at least till he wrote off the 05 car during the year... then he disappeared. Work pressures were cited if I recall rightly but it didnt really make sense.

From reading the Great Race books at the time, it almost seemed like 3 drivers into 2 slots didnt fit... George Fury was already there from years past, and Seton seemed the anointed one... and on the way up.

George Fury kinda suffered the same way, the experienced guy in the team for many years, ended up as part of a 3 car HR31 team with the next anointed one in Mark Skaife... and new recruit Jim Richards after Seton left... but again, 3 drivers, 2 cars, and George was not included in their plans.

George didnt retire either, popping up in Seton's PJ Sierra squad the next year, and doing very well at that too.

Then rocking up in a bog standard Spi****er-sponsored VR-4 Galant to be leading the ARC after a couple of rounds and making the established talent look like a bunch of amateurs...

Still remember the 2.13.85 in the Bluebird.. and how shy George was at the time for having done it. An unsung hero, and a brilliant talent.

I dont know where the Bangkok Godzilla ended up, I am surprised Nissan didnt want to keep an example of their success, or indeed want to keep the cars Freddo sold off to Terry Ashwood. A different time, a different place there now I suppose.

The best memories for them would have been the Godzilla era, when finally they had the car to beat, having spent more than Ford had contributed to their runners in the previous 20 years to keep it mobilised

[GTRMagic]

How come the thread-naze doesnt like the word Sp it wa te r?? :confused: Its a brand of high pressure industrial cleaner and indeed a current DJR sponsor

[William Dale Jr]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what happened to the other two PJ DR30s? I think Seton's '87 car went to Mike Griffin to build up a Nissan Pintara Sports Sedan, but was sold on before he finished it. I assume the one in the above pic is the ex-Fury '87 car, so what happened to the ex-Seton and ex-Bowe cars?

[racer69]

Could one of them have gone to Clive Smith, who raced a yellow one in the 1989 ATCC?

Is the Gazelle still in PJ colours? It did a few rounds of the 1988 ATCC with a senior Nissan employee at the wheel (his name escapes me), but the car was completely black.

On Gary Scott, he popped up for a few rounds after he bent Brock's #05 car at Lakeside. Brock drove #6 (actually interesting that he left it as number 6) at Lakeside, Wanneroo and Adelaide International, then Garry Scott rejoined the team at round 6 at Surfers Paradise when Brock debuted the new VL (which got trounced by Scott) He also drove the car at the following two rounds at Sandown and Amaroo, before being replaced by Jon Crooke for the Oran Park finale.

He then popped up replacing Brad Jones in the Ralliart Mitsubishi at Bathurst that year alongside Akihiko Nakaya, and in subsequent years with the same team at Bathurst (till about 1989). He drove the Colourbond Jaguar XJS (OT, but was this the ex-Mark Trenoweth car, which was the ex-John McCormack car?) in the 1991 Australian Sports Sedan Championship, then slipped off the radar.

If i remember rightly, George Fury initially agreed to a contract with Nissan for 1990, which had him as test driver/endurance driver, with a maybe for a one-off ATCC race. He initially had trouble getting the nod to run the Mitsubishi in the ARC, and later in the year when the GTR development fell behind, he got a release from Nissan (they ran just one car at Bathurst anyway) and he accepted the Setonoffer to drive one of his Sierra's, complete with #30.....if only Glenn ran with #15 instead of #35.

Nissan had 4 great drivers within 3 years. It is a pity 2 of them were pretty much lost to the sport, rather than just to other teams.

[GTRMagic]

The Clive Smith car is the ex-Murray Carter Everlast/NetComm car

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by racer69
He drove the Colourbond Jaguar XJS (OT, but was this the ex-Mark Trenoweth car, which was the ex-John McCormack car?) in the 1991 Australian Sports Sedan Championship, then slipped off the radar.

Yep, that's the car. Mark Trenoweth still ran it, but Scott did the driving. He'd driven it in various races since at least 1988. KB also had a run in the car at one of the AMSCAR meetings. I don't know the exact course of events, but I think Trenoweth had K&A Engineering build up a replacement to the original XJS and put all the mechanicals into it. What happened to the original, I don't know.

[MHDT]

Originally posted by racer69
He then popped up replacing Brad Jones in the Ralliart Mitsubishi at Bathurst that year alongside Akihiko Nakaya, and in subsequent years with the same team at Bathurst (till about 1989). He drove the Colourbond Jaguar XJS (OT, but was this the ex-Mark Trenoweth car, which was the ex-John McCormack car?) in the 1991 Australian Sports Sedan Championship, then slipped off the radar.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I recall Gary Scott running a Suzuki Gti in the Targa Tasmania, circa 1994-95. I think he (or perhaps another Gary Scott) may have set up a tuning company in the Newcastle area, called Scott's Dyno Tune.

[GTRMagic]

Its not the same one, even though the name is the same

[ajrichar]

*BUMP*

So, nowadays, Terry Ashwood owns the Bathurst winning #1 Winfield GT-R, Lindsay Fox owns the #2 Winfield GT-R and Bob Forbes still has the GIO car? Or does Terry Ashwood own the GIO car now aswell? The reason I ask is that at the recent 2006 Australian Muscle Car Masters, the GIO car was displayed next to the #1 Winfield car (I hadn't seen or heard anything of the GIO car). I wonder whether Terry has now bought the car from Bob?

Any further news on this so-called 'Bangkok GT-R' from 1991?

[manwell]

October 2006 my car broke down and i got it towed home on top of a flatbed tow truck.
Chatting to the driver on the way home he said that a few weeks previous he had taken the Bob Forbes owned GIO Skyline out to Eastern Creek to show to a potential buyer.
Not sure if it ended up getting sold or not but it sounds like it might have been a possibility. He did mention it was still in immaculate condition though and if i remember correctly he believed the asking price was about $400K.
Sounded a bit too much to me for a car that never won a championship or bathurst, but anyway, thats what the towey said.