WEC Alpine going to LMP1 - Page 2

Deleted · 18 Sep 2020, 21:47 (Ref:4003682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

He didn't whine in 2014-2017, so in conclusion he doesn't like competition that doesn't use the same rules.

He whined in 2013 (and Ullrich had great comeback for it even though they had to give up something)
https://fourtitude.com/news/motorspo...udi-dominance/
https://www.hybridcars.com/audis-die...-weekend-race/

And in 2015 of course the aero/budget cuts
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...imits-for-lmp1

But those comments (and the things that resulted from them) were extremely mild of course when we look at the landscape today and tomorrow

deggis · 19 Sep 2020, 01:59 (Ref:4003713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

He whined in 2013 (and Ullrich had great comeback for it even though they had to give up something)
https://fourtitude.com/news/motorspo...udi-dominance/
https://www.hybridcars.com/audis-die...-weekend-race/

And in 2015 of course the aero/budget cuts
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...imits-for-lmp1

But those comments (and the things that resulted from them) were extremely mild of course when we look at the landscape today and tomorrow

I specifically said 2014-2017 because everyone knows the balance of performance situation prior to those rules was complicated and I don't see any whining in that 2015 link.

Tique · 19 Sep 2020, 06:18 (Ref:4003728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

He didn't whine in 2014-2017, so in conclusion he doesn't like competition that doesn't use the same rules.

In 2014-2017, we did enjoy some factory teams in LMP1. Since Toyota is the only fatory in LMP1, he always complained when changes were made to the EoT in order to have closer performances between the LMP1 H and the LMP1 non H. This season is different (except Le Mans) as the ACO did introduced other measures in order to have a closer competition. But if we look last season, it has been quite a farce between the LMP1 H and LMP 1 Non H. The lap advance per stint at Le Mans is just something that was not fair. If we didn't had this advantage, I believe tat the BR01 of the SMP Racing will still be with us this year.

helgi · 19 Sep 2020, 08:55 (Ref:4003752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Once the two main french manufacturers are both entering grandfathered LMP1 cars then i think the ACO will be bending over backwards to ensure they will be in with a chance of an overall win

Wait a minute. I've heard grandfathered cars won't be able to chase Нурегсагs.

Tique · 20 Sep 2020, 13:26 (Ref:4005059)

If not, it will quite boring...

canaglia · 20 Sep 2020, 13:41 (Ref:4005068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

If not, it will quite boring...

hard to say by now, considering that a 700hpx816kg R13 can run in 3.15 at le mans and that next year hypercars at best will be in 3.25 range, I think that alpine R13 will get a "lmp2" treatment.... 100hp power cut through fuel flow reduction and min weight >900kg for sure. Despite hypercars should develope less downforce than lmp2 and old lmp1, it's unlikely R13 could receive some aero handicap since don't think ACO could force oreca to design and make new parts.

Tique · 20 Sep 2020, 13:48 (Ref:4005073)

My view is that they will not run the 4.5L engine currently used by the R13 and go to the 4.2 currently used in LMP2. It will fit nicely in the car. Then, if you play a bit with the aero, the Alpine should be close to the 3.25 at Le Mans

broadrun96 · 20 Sep 2020, 13:54 (Ref:4005074)

Yeah, it would be tough to say grandfathered car now redesign it. Would be interesting to see how much they could turn down the engine or if a re-engine design is needed. You'd have to assume they'll ask Alpine to carry around tires and parts to fix the barriers while they're out there as ballast.

canaglia · 20 Sep 2020, 14:08 (Ref:4005076)

to me R13 will stay untouched from current specs, so don't expect new aero parts or new tyres that would require new suspensions geometries. Guess they will stick with 4.5L V8 as well since to change engine requires to change rear subframe as well.
Maybe bop/eot would just make alpine lmp1 1030kg heavy (same min weight of hypercar) + 90-95kg/h fuel flow rate and less kg of fuel a stint.

Mike E · 20 Sep 2020, 15:32 (Ref:4005098)

I would be surprised if they could safely add over 200kg to the base weight. It is not designed to be crashed at 1030kg + driver weight + fuel weight.

canaglia · 20 Sep 2020, 15:51 (Ref:4005102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

I would be surprised if they could safely add over 200kg to the base weight. It is not designed to be crashed at 1030kg + driver weight + fuel weight.

don't think is a big issue actually, cadillac dpi dallara based has been bopped to 980kg more than once

**joeb** · 20 Sep 2020, 19:22 (Ref:4005157)

During the race broadcast it was mentioned that Sam Collins was suggesting the Nissan SuperGT motor will likely serve as the Alpine engine in their lmdh or hypercar motor. Doesn't help for the R13, but thought it was interesting.

GingerPixel · 21 Sep 2020, 13:41 (Ref:4005361)

On one hand I'm pleased to have another team at the top of the field, but isn't the grandfathering of the old LMP2 on steriods a bit dissapointing?

**Aysedasi** · 21 Sep 2020, 13:54 (Ref:4005364)

Yes, but it's better than nothing.... I'd have preferred to see Rebellion soldier on with it, to be honest.

Mike E · 21 Sep 2020, 16:33 (Ref:4005387)

Agreed. The top class needs cars. Even with the Alpbellion we just might have 6 cars . Which is pretty thin gruel.

**Aysedasi** · 21 Sep 2020, 17:20 (Ref:4005399)

So they have two cars then? An Alpbellion as well as a Rebalpine?

GT6 · 21 Sep 2020, 17:49 (Ref:4005407)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So they have two cars then? An Alpbellion as well as a Rebalpine?

Very good Andrew but we will still call them the "old rebellions"

**Aysedasi** · 21 Sep 2020, 17:50 (Ref:4005408)

French Rebs......

broadrun96 · 21 Sep 2020, 21:12 (Ref:4005454)

This feels like the F1 conversation if what to call the Mercedes and others. Can we can Mercedes the TyBARHonBrawMerc?

I suggest we go with the Rebelpine for order of life. ORebelpine if you'd prefer to include Oreca as well.

**joeb** · 21 Sep 2020, 21:15 (Ref:4005459)

Has there been an annoucement to say who will be running the car? Is Alpine starting a prototype racing team from scratch? or are they acquiring somebodies shop/trucks/pit equipment/personnel?

canaglia · 21 Sep 2020, 21:55 (Ref:4005472)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

Has there been an annoucement to say who will be running the car? Is Alpine starting a prototype racing team from scratch? or are they acquiring somebodies shop/trucks/pit equipment/personnel?

I'm sure signatech will keep on being the one under the alpine umbrella.
To me the car should be named alpine R20 (R13+07)

deggis · 22 Sep 2020, 00:39 (Ref:4005480)

The hope is that this transforms into a LMH/LMDh project, but what are they exactly learning from grandfathered non-hybrid LMP1 that they couldn't already learn from LMP2?

broadrun96 · 22 Sep 2020, 01:02 (Ref:4005482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

The hope is that this transforms into a LMH/LMDh project, but what are they exactly learning from grandfathered non-hybrid LMP1 that they couldn't already learn from LMP2?

Pick up the scraps and get a possible overall win to put in the display case?

deggis · 22 Sep 2020, 04:53 (Ref:4005495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Pick up the scraps and get a possible overall win to put in the display case?

Indeed, that was the point I was making. Perhaps there is no long-term plan.

CTD · 22 Sep 2020, 07:56 (Ref:4005516)

Continue with Sebah Automotive?
They know the car in and out, making it effectively a pure branding effort from Alpine/Renault side.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class	Holt	Sportscar & GT Racing	35	6 Jun 2012 13:44
Highcroft/HPD going to LMP1 / Marco Werner?	colt513	Sportscar & GT Racing	13	22 Jun 2010 00:55
alpine stars race gear	ringo	Racers Forum	2	25 Jun 2002 11:19