Mazda LMP2 - no more rotary

[knighty]

Mike lancaster is quoted on DSC as saying the new mazda 4 pot is 20Kg lighter than the current 4 pot .......mikes website says that was 95Kg for the current motor........so that 75Kg for the new mazda - crikey - thats a light engine for a sports prototype!........aparrently AER are saying something about the 4 pot mazda being half the current 3.4 V8.......so I interpret that as being the same head, pistons and con rods form the V8.

[paul-collins]

For clarification, the Acura is a ground up design, the first ever from HPD in California - previous design work was done in Japan - although, of course, they'll have learned a lot from the IRL engine design. Low end torque was never an issue for IRL until recently, after all...

[ss_collins]

not sure about the final number thoery there - the Lola B06/51 is the FNippon chassis - /51 is the number for both Honda and Toyota variants.

So as far as I understand it the second number is the class of car. To confuse things further when Lola updates the design - ie B05/40 the number makes it appear to be a new car B06/40
/00 = Champ Car
/10 = LMP1/SR1
/20 = Indy Lights
/30 = F1 / F3
/40 = LMP2/SR1
/50 = F3000
/51 = Fomula Nippon
/60 = LMP900 / LMP675
/90 = S2000
F106 = Dome collaboration on F3 chassis

confusing innit!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TRuss

I may be the only one, but this makes me happy. I hate rotaries. All they do well is make that terrible noise. It's the funniest thing the first time you hear that shriek in the distance and you're just positive that you are about to see something so fierce that you won't be able to comprehend it. After several seconds you start to wonder where this ferocious piece of machinery is...and finally it goes past screaming at what must be 30,000 RPM and you can't wait for it to go away because you fear for your ears, but it seems like it will never make it past you because it is visually going so slow. It sounds like it's going 1000mph but it's going 100. And yes your initial thought was true. You can't comprehend it. It's impossible to comprehend how something can make that much noise and go that slow. Sorry for the fans of it though. And it is cool that the rules allow for variety and at least a little innovation.

But you should have seen it at Le mans in 1991 , it was fast , sounded magic and it also won the race ..... i must admit that the quad rotor is the only engine that hurt my hear , once . But I can live with that !!!

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by knighty

Mike lancaster is quoted on DSC as saying the new mazda 4 pot is 20Kg lighter than the current 4 pot .......mikes website says that was 95Kg for the current motor........so that 75Kg for the new mazda - crikey - thats a light engine for a sports prototype!........aparrently AER are saying something about the 4 pot mazda being half the current 3.4 V8.......so I interpret that as being the same head, pistons and con rods form the V8.

I was looking at pics of the AER V8 in RaceTech mag today, and it struck me that the block design looked very similar to the pics of the Mazda engine. The Mazda does look pretty much like half the V8. Hopefully this will allow AER to get the direct injection working on the V8 as well, which itself is an amazingly light engine (114kg).

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/aerturbolmp1v8.html

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by The Badger

But you should have seen it at Le mans in 1991 , it was fast , sounded magic and it also won the race ..... i must admit that the quad rotor is the only engine that hurt my hear , once . But I can live with that !!!

I saw the mazdaspeed rotary at Spa in 89. Was the first time I realised it was rotary and only 1300cc!!! God what a noise! just made me laugh with total incredulity every time it went by

[Hammerdown]

Originally Posted by C9/89

I saw the mazdaspeed rotary at Spa in 89. Was the first time I realised it was rotary and only 1300cc!!!

Well I suppose that's part of the rotary problem really, just how do you measure the capacity? Is it really 1300, or 2600, or 3900? Obviously it can't be compared directly to a piston engine, so any equivalency formula will either make or break it. Interesting they may be, but probably not the future (but don't hold me to that!). I always thought the RX7 and 8 would be much better cars with a 3-litre V6 in them. OK, you can burn me at the stake now!

[chernaudi]

I feel that the Mazda/AER engine will have a definite torque advantage. With 400 ft/lbs., it should be far better than the 3.4 Porsche and Acura/Honda V8s.

Remeber Lime Rock and the Deul between the Penske RS Spyder and the ASNA Champion Racing Audi R8. Despite having to make do with 550-580hp(vs 600-700 in '02 spec) and with "success ballast"(935 kg vs 900 kg), the R8 had no problem getting around the Porsche in traffic, and no problem pulling away when it got passed. The reason for this isn't so much the 70-90 HP advantage the Audi had, but the massive torque advantage it had(RS Spyder: 273 ft/lbs, R8: 516 ft/lbs). And most of the R8's torque was low end(Audi drivers frequently shift a just above 6000 rpm, with peak power availble, depending on restictions, from 5700-6250 rpm, through to about its 7000 rpm redline). So it was a deal where Mc Nish used the R8's low end torque to get around the Porsche. And Nishy had no problem pulling away, especally in traffic.

And that's whay I think that the Mazda/AER engine will be in demand when it goes up for general sale at the end of '07, if it's reliable enough.

[Mike_Wooshy]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

I always thought the RX7 and 8 would be much better cars with a 3-litre V6 in them. OK, you can burn me at the stake now!

Agreed ! or well the RX7 was okay I throught with although it didnt last long (In terms of mileage) ..... BUT I'd prefer to put the rotary in the MX-5 !
Then everyone is happy ! Although I like the rotary engine I cant help but feel it would be better in this sort or car ..... lightweight etc etc.
The engine is a good engine To be fair and its a shame mazda have gone away from it.
I hope the rotary will be back in sportscar and it will be missed !

[Mindspin13B]

Have they done any testing? Is the car even assebled yet? Any word on the AER motor?

[Félix]

To be tested on March 5. The new 2007 Lola front will be unveiled at the same time. Every Lola at Sebring will have it, amongst other upgrades.

edit: the news comes from Endurance-Info

[The Badger]

Whats the idea behind the nose intake then ?

Leaving it a bit late for their debut a couple of weeks later , and a big debut it is too !!!

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Whats the idea behind the nose intake then ?

Leaving it a bit late for their debut a couple of weeks later , and a big debut it is too !!!

Looks like front brake ducting just like the RS Spyder has. My guess anyway!

L.P.

[prototype]

With such a late start, anyone want to guess how long they will last at Sebring?

Last year Dyson tested a new Lola AER combo. They did the WDWT and an endurance test at Road Atlanta. That car was not ready for Sebring, but they did manage to do a large portion of the race.

I have serious doubts about how competitive this Mazda is going to be out of the gate.

[gwyllion]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/news.html explains how the engine and chassis were decided. For the chassis the choice was between Lola and Radical.

I regret (emotionally) that they did not go for Radical, but I have to agree (rationally) that Lola is the better choice because of their history and experience.

[prototype]

It would have been nice to see the Radical go round here in the united States.

[gwyllion]

You will with the Van Der Steur car.

[prototype]

I thought that last year at Petit Le Mans when it did about 6 laps.

[The359]

It lasted a while at Laguna Seca.

[prototype]

It was a good moving roadblock (just kidding).

I guess to be more specific, I wanted to see the Radical with serious money behind it and competing for victories which I don't think VDS will do. I don't think Mazda will either.

My point is it would be nice to see another chassis be commonplace like the Courage and the Lola.

The fact that Mazda selected Lola I think will show that if they are off the pace, it wont be the chassis. It will be either the engine or the driver. If Mazda had selected Radical, I don't know if we could say that. Not saying the Radical is slow, we just don't have enough info to know.

[Ranald]

First pic of the Mazda-Lola! (courtesy of Endurance-info.com) At Snetterton I assume. It looks great IMHO

http://www.endurance-info.com/2007_A...Shake_Down.jpg

[The359]

The turbo inlet looks like its in yet another new location for the team. I remember them having it on the edge of the car, then in with the rollbars, now its tucked inside the rear fender.

[vorsprung]

That's the standard LMP2 Lola AER turbo intake location and shape.

The B07 splitter is a lot thinner and the valance panel behind the fenders has the same shape as the B06 had.

[gttouring]

truw no more rotary
but that engine- with some cosworth goodness (which they will sneak in surely being about 30 miles away.)
it will liekly do better than the rotary..
look how good the 2.3 turbo is in the Mazdaspeed 3.
it should rock in the LMP2, maybe not porsche clobber, but better than before.

where is an update to the 787b is the real question

[cmk]

Originally Posted by gttouring

truw no more rotary
but that engine- with some cosworth goodness (which they will sneak in surely being about 30 miles away.)
it will liekly do better than the rotary..
look how good the 2.3 turbo is in the Mazdaspeed 3.
it should rock in the LMP2, maybe not porsche clobber, but better than before.

where is an update to the 787b is the real question

What would Cosworth possibly have to do with an AER bespoke engine design for Mazda? And what does the 2.3L turbo from a Mazdaspeed 3 have to do with this engine?