Group A Ford Sierra RS500

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by chunterer

For example I think that Rex Muldoon's one off entry at the final BTCC event of 1987 that KA mentions was still a Cosworth and not an RS500?

I have a feeling that it was, as KA suggested, a Group A rally car. I guess it wouldn't have been practical to switch it across for one event before having to switch it back.

One question, was Rex Muldoon an Aussie?

EDIT: Another trivia question (to which I'm unsure of the answer and would like my hunch confirmed). Where and when was the first victory for an RS Cosworth Sierra?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

EDIT: Another trivia question (to which I'm unsure of the answer and would like my hunch confirmed). Where and when was the first victory for an RS Cosworth Sierra?

Well, Gerry Mahoney won the opening round of the BTCC in 1987 at Silverstone but I can't remember the date of that race.
However, I'm sure that the World Touring Car Championship started earlier in the year so would guess that a Sierra Cosworth would have already won a Touring Car race by then.
(No doubt someone will be along shortly to correct or confirm my suspicions...)

[Jesper OH]

The opening round of the '87 BTCC was on the 12th April at Silverstone and won by Andy Rouse. Mahony's victory was in either '88 or '89.
It would take Dick Johnson another three weeks before he broke the spell in Australia, while the Eggenberger team won their first ETCC race at Zolder in early June, and their first WTCC at Nürburgring in July.

Jesper

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

The opening round of the '87 BTCC was on the 12th April at Silverstone and won by Andy Rouse. Mahony's victory was in either '88 or '89.
It would take Dick Johnson another three weeks before he broke the spell in Australia, while the Eggenberger team won their first ETCC race at Zolder in early June, and their first WTCC at Nürburgring in July.

Jesper

Thanks Jesper for putting me right. My old brain is obviously playing tricks on me, my only excuse being that it was nearly 20 years ago...

[Jesper OH]

..and my excuse is that I'm intending to write a book about the group A era - so I have some handy notes at hand for such occasions as these!

Nice picture of the Goode Sierras by the way.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

I have a feeling that it was, as KA suggested, a Group A rally car. I guess it wouldn't have been practical to switch it across for one event before having to switch it back.

One question, was Rex Muldoon an Aussie?

EDIT: Another trivia question (to which I'm unsure of the answer and would like my hunch confirmed). Where and when was the first victory for an RS Cosworth Sierra?

I'm sure one of the contemporary race reports (either Autosport or Motoring News) referred to the car as being a Group A rallycar- I think it might well have suggested Muldoon was an Aussie- I have to admit I know nothing about him

[chunterer]

Yeah i'm sure he was referred to as 'Australian rallyman' or something too.

Moving aside a little, one of my favourite all time anecdotes was from Roberto Moreno, who when out testing his Bromley Reynard F3000 car at Silverstone in 1988, reckoned Andy Rouse or someone blew by him in their RS500 on the Hangar Straight!!!!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yeah i'm sure he was referred to as 'Australian rallyman' or something too.

Moving aside a little, one of my favourite all time anecdotes was from Roberto Moreno, who when out testing his Bromley Reynard F3000 car at Silverstone in 1988, reckoned Andy Rouse or someone blew by him in their RS500 on the Hangar Straight!!!!

Roberto was was either cruising around slowly or recounting the contents of a dream.

[Jesper OH]

Ford Sierra RS Cosworth and Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth in Japan (1987-1992)

1987:

The races:
Round 1 – 1987.03.22 – Mine
Round 2 – 1987.06.21 – Sendai
Round 3 – 1987.08.30 – Mine
Round 4 – 1987.09.20 – Tsukuba
Round 5 – 1987.11.15 – Fuji – final WTCC round as well
Round 6 – 1987.12.06 – Suzuka

The entries:
#10 unknown owner (anyone?)/Trampio RS Cosworth (rounds 1 and 2), RS500 (rounds 3-6)
Driven by Naoki Nagasaka for the entire season. Hiyoshi Misaki partnered him for the first four rounds, with Andy Rouse replacing him for the WTCC Fuji race (also an All-Japan Touring Car Championship round). For the final round Hisashi Yokoyama was the co-driver. Misaki being dropped or ****ed off?
R1 – DNF
R2 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class
R3 – Victory
R4 – DNF
R5 – 2nd o/a, 2nd cl
R6 – Victory

Ruedi Eggenberger/Ford Texaco Racing RS500s (round 5 only)
#6 – Klaus Ludwig/Klaus Niedzwiedz – Victory
#7 – Steve Soper/Pierre Diedonné – 5th o/a, 3rd in class
#8 – Armin Hahne/Bernd Schneider – 17th o/a, 10th in class

I don't know if the Eggenberger cars actually scored points for the AJTCC.

Overall, three victories from six races was a very nice start.

More to come...

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Roberto was was either cruising around slowly or recounting the contents of a dream.

The Moreno story, if I remember correctly, might have been told in the programme for the 88 TT- Bromley were running the Reynard in an open test session, and the RS500 team (either Eggenberger or Rouse) were there testing for the TT. I don't know how hard Roberto was driving the Reynard, but a Group A RS500 is seriously quick in a straight line....

[davyboy]

Oh for sure it is, but assuming Moreno exited Chapel onto the Hangar straight correctly, there's not a cat in hell's chance of a Group A RS500 getting anywhere near him by the time he turned into Stowe. The two are leagues apart in performance on a circuit.

[KA]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Oh for sure it is, but assuming Moreno exited Chapel onto the Hangar straight correctly, there's not a cat in hell's chance of a Group A RS500 getting anywhere near him by the time he turned into Stowe. The two are leagues apart in performance on a circuit.

Without a doubt- I don't know exactly what the comparitive laptimes would be, but the F3000 would be in a different league

Thinking about it, and I'd have to dig out the race programme, or issue of Autosport in which it was told to be sure of this, but I have a suspicion the gist of the original story wasn't that the RS500 passed Moreno on the straight, but that Moreno came up behind the Cossie after exiting Chapel only to find he didn't have enough straight-line speed to pass it flat-out on Hangar straight, and so had to wait until it braked for Stowe....

[bdwoody]

all these RS500 storys and history, my mate martin has owned a few of these and i have had the pleasure to have sat in the listerine goode rs ,sopers eggenburger texaco and harveys labatts cars on the same day .if only we could have raced them ,still theres always the lawrence bristow labatts RS that he still has ,will have to twist his arm.....

[racer2_uk]

Hi bdwoody,

with ref to your comment "if only we could have raced them", I raced the Robb Gravett Trakstar car in club racing in '96 and '97, it was a great mix of adrenaline, excitement and fear, I still have the car which I have restored to it's Dick Johnson Shell livery and occasionally take out on track for a "fix"



Andy

[bdwoody]

we met at rockingham last year if you recall on ford day.

[Jesper OH]

Here's Japan 1988 and links to where I've found the results.
http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/res...&pre_year=2008
http://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/database...?cid=20&sid=55
The Alta Vista Babel fish is helpful regarding translations as is old Autosport reports!

The races:
Round 1 – 1988.01.17 – Suzuka
Round 2 – 1988.03.20 – Mine
Round 3 – 1988.06.05 – Sendai
Round 4 – 1988.08.21 – Tsukuba
Round 5 – 1988.09.18 – Sugo
Round 6 – 1988.11.13 – Fuji – a round of the new FIA Asian-Pacific Touring Car Championship as well

#1 (#10 at round 1, #33 at round 6) Trampio RS500 (rounds 1-6)
Naoki Nagasaka for the entire season. Hisashi Yokoyama carries on from late ’87, but is replaced by Tomohiko Tsutsumi from round four and onwards. Kazuo Shimizu is added to the line-up for the Intertec 500 final.
R1 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class
R2 – DNF
R3 – Victory
R4 – DNF
R5 – 3rd o/v, 3rd in class
R6 – DNF

#3 (#13 at round 1, #30 at round 6) Dunlop RS500 (unknown team or owner) (rounds 3-6)
Eje Elgh and Maurizio Sandro Sala driving.
R3 – DNF
R4 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class
R5 – Victory
R6 – 13th o/a, 3rd in class

#6 Andrew Miedecke RS500 (round 6 only)
Andrew Miedecke and Graeme Crosby chasing points for the FIA Asian-Pasific Touring Car title.
R6 – DNF

#11 (#22 at round 6) unknown team (Kazuo Shimizu?) RS500 (rounds 3-6)
Hisashi Yokoyama doing all the races for the team. Partnered by Kazuo Shimizu for rounds 3-5, while Klaus Niedzwiedz replaced him for the final round at Fuji.
R3 – DNF
R4 – Victory
R5 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class
R6 – Victory

#? DL Shimizu RS500 (round 2 only)
Suguru Akaike and unknown co-driver. This might be the #11 entry, but I have no way of telling.
R2 – DNF

A second a DNF and then victories in the final four rounds for the RS500 in Japan in 1988 from three more or less full time teams.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

I have a suspicion the gist of the original story wasn't that the RS500 passed Moreno on the straight, but that Moreno came up behind the Cossie after exiting Chapel only to find he didn't have enough straight-line speed to pass it flat-out on Hangar straight, and so had to wait until it braked for Stowe....

Thanks KA, I believe that is a much closer representation of what I posted earlier, and of course as davyboy points out probably a much more realistic possibility of what happened that particular day.

[racer69]

I recall footage one year on a big pitfire in the All-Japan Touring Car Championship involving one of the RS500s. Any idea what car/year it was?


It's interesting to look at how many RS500s there were being used, especially in the BTCC, but there were very few teams/drivers to really get the hang of them properly to be competitive.

In the BTCC there was only really Andy Rouse Engineering (encompassing the Labatts cars & the Kaliber/ICS cars) & Trackstar who were consistently competitive, although Jerry Mahony did get a win to open the 1988 BTCC

In the ATCC you had DJR the only regular Sierra winners from 1988-1992. Longhurst's team scored a few wins, and Colin Bond got a pair of wins in the 1990 ATCC (thanks to his Toyo tyres it must be said), while most other runners locally were inconsistent when up the front.

Elsewhere you had Eggenberger & Wolf doing the bulk of the Sierra fornt-running.

Thoughts?

[KA]

Originally Posted by racer69

I recall footage one year on a big pitfire in the All-Japan Touring Car Championship involving one of the RS500s. Any idea what car/year it was?


It's interesting to look at how many RS500s there were being used, especially in the BTCC, but there were very few teams/drivers to really get the hang of them properly to be competitive.

In the BTCC there was only really Andy Rouse Engineering (encompassing the Labatts cars & the Kaliber/ICS cars) & Trackstar who were consistently competitive, although Jerry Mahony did get a win to open the 1988 BTCC

In the ATCC you had DJR the only regular Sierra winners from 1988-1992. Longhurst's team scored a few wins, and Colin Bond got a pair of wins in the 1990 ATCC (thanks to his Toyo tyres it must be said), while most other runners locally were inconsistent when up the front.

Elsewhere you had Eggenberger & Wolf doing the bulk of the Sierra fornt-running.

Thoughts?

The real enigma for me was always Graham Goode's cars- always beautifully presented, apparently well-funded, and usually quick- generally best of the rest after Rouse and Trakstar, but never able to translate that into race wins

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

#11 (#22 at round 6) unknown team (Kazuo Shimizu?) RS500 (rounds 3-6)
Hisashi Yokoyama doing all the races for the team. Partnered by Kazuo Shimizu for rounds 3-5, while Klaus Niedzwiedz replaced him for the final round at Fuji.
R3 – DNF
R4 – Victory
R5 – 2nd o/a, 2nd in class
R6 – Victory

Sounds like the Object T/Trampio/Ciesse Piumini car, as modelled by Tamiya in 1/24 around 1989/90- they offered their RS500 kit in Eggenberger/Texaco and Object T versions.

I've got one of these stored away somewhere in the loft- the model seems to represent the Yokoyama/Niedzwiedz entry at Fuji. Funnily enough, I never did do the Eggenberger version...
http://www.fordsierranet.com.ar/Fotos/tamiya06.jpg

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by KA

The real enigma for me was always Graham Goode's cars- always beautifully presented, apparently well-funded, and usually quick- generally best of the rest after Rouse and Trakstar, but never able to translate that into race wins

Unfortunately, the team was nowhere near as well funded as it appeared...

[Alan Brown]

Confirmation from MN 7-10-87: "Australian Rex Muldoon....the Cosworth still in rally trim". He finished seventh, Pete Hall winning in a RS500 from two Vitesses, a Commodore and another Vitesse. There only appears to have been two Sierras.

[FordNut]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Unfortunately, the team was nowhere near as well funded as it appeared...

Quite. There was a supplement given away with the April '93 issue of CCC called Just Cos to mark the end of the Sierra Cosworth, which contained an interview with Graham about his time running Sierras (and Art Markus did a test drive of Mike Newman's Listerine-Goode car). The article says that he did all his own engine development in conjunction with Alan Smith engines (Zytek), and built his own turbos. The works teams had access to special turbo shafts that cost about £1000 each, but Graham used to source his from Cosworth - they were developing the F1 turbo engine and used to change the shafts as a matter of course after each run so Graham used to get their cast-offs. When the F1 turbo program was canned, they found another source in the USA and the shafts looked exactly the same, but obviously weren't as they lost 5 turbos in one weekend at Silverstone.

He also recounts watching the Eggenberger team going round for 500kms and wonder how they were doing it. Some time later he got one of their engines in for a rebuild and couldn't believe how heavy it was - because they had special 'works' reinforced blocks.

[Jesper OH]

From the Autosport '88 BTCC review I remember a paragraph mentioning that Goode's engine software was stolen mid season, which didn't help their competitiveness.

Jesper

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

From the Autosport '88 BTCC review I remember a paragraph mentioning that Goode's engine software was stolen mid season, which didn't help their competitiveness.

Jesper

It was actually worse than that. Graham's RS500 road car was stolen out of the paddock one night at Oulton Park (motorhome one side, full of sleeping Goode family, transporter the other full of sleeping mechanics). In the boot was Grahams briefcase, containing ALL of his setup and testing information, engine and chassis, not only for the RS500's but also from his Group A Nissan Bluebird, a major blow that took a long time to recover from...

Here's a picture of the two Listerine RS500's in 1990, taken at Silverstone by Dennis Foy, the editor of Performance Ford Magazine at the time. (Sadly, Dennis passed away unexpectedly last week. R.I.P. Dennis).