Konica @ Wakefield

[GTRMagic]

I recall a certain young man driving an ex-B&H M3 running in sports sedans in the wet and making a name for himself by trouncing the so-called experts in less than nice conditions....

If a driver or car owner hasnt prepared themselves for the total loss scenario then perhaps they are being optimistic with their assets.

Watching good drivers in the rain is great, to separate the men from the boys, the people who rely on the great HP of their engines rather than the mechanical grip a chassis offers them.... we might see a new star in the making...

Are Sports Sedans required to have windscreen wipers and the like given that most glass is replaced with Lexan?

[RaceTime]

I understand that - but lets say it continues until Sunday - wouldn't you be considered jusrt a bit of a moron if you had done NO wet weather practice???

I think the saying is - up here for thinking, down there for sitting on.....

[GTRMagic]

I have seen cars do the very same thing at Bathurst Racetime, the team maneger decides its too wet to send the cars out so they sit inside their nice warm garages for a session

A total waste in my book...

Mark Webber once said if you set a car up for the wet properly it should be a pretty handy car in the dry as well... maybe it would make a good test session....

Surely race drivers are still hoons, enjoying getting the things sideways and power oversteer everywhere...

[thepaw]

And with only 4 FHolden's you get a quarter of a track each to play with. Heaps of time to get things lined up, and try try again.
But you hit the nail on the head GTR i'd be out there loving every minute of it smoking it up, and basiclly being a hoolligan!

[GTV27]

Originally posted by DNQ
Ah the debut of Formula 4000. I am so excited

? is this the new name for Formula Holden, or have I missed something (as usual)?

If yes, then why? Last time I looked, that boat anchor of a motor was 3.8 litres.

Is it a portent of things to come - will they use any engine up to 4.0 litres?

Will the new Holden V6 be 4.0 litres?

Why don't they just put 5.0 litre V8's in them and go back to the halcyon days of F5000 - use the V8 Supercar rules for the motors and get some economies of scale from the engine builders.

[GTRMagic]

They used carbon dating on the cars and discovered they were 4,000 years old GTV27, or was that 4,000 years since they had a birthday, or was that 4,000 drivers thinking they had a deal to run one for the year... one of them anyway...

Makes no sense to us either

[RaceTime]

Actually we all have it wrong - the new official name for this category is Formula 4000 Powered By Holden....

It is simply an attempt to keep alive a dead category (maybe we should really move this thread to the 02 ASTC thread?

[GTV27]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
They used carbon dating on the cars and discovered they were 4,000 years old

Now thats the funniest thing I've read today. Thanks GTR

[FalconEL]

Originally posted by RaceTime
Think the word you are looking for, Crash, is wimps! Both Sports Sedans and Formula Holden's dislike the rain so much they try to have the sessions/races cancelled if it is wet.

(Formula Holden use the excuse they don't have wet weather tyres....)

And they call these 'racing categories'.........

I guess I'm fairly surprised to be categorised as a Sports Sedan "wimp" by someone I thought knew better and I thought had a broader view of the bigger picture. Things must look pretty tame from the relative safety of the Timing Room. Can't say I've ever criticised anyone in the timing room before myself.......

There are a select few people who have had the oppotunity to drive 600+ horsepower Sports Sedans in wet conditions and I'm one of them. Yes, they are a pig. They p*#s water in everywhere and they fog up (remembering our lexan windscreens do not have any form of demisting capability). You can't see that well because the use of a wiper on a lexan windscreen immediately ruins a $500.00 piece of lexan (so we use Rain-x and no wipers).

Then you have the added issue of trying to get the power down in cars that struggle to do so in the dry let alone wet conditions.

Despite the above, I love driving in those conditions with all the factors I've listed taken into account. It is awesome. But I conceed, we aren't doing V8 supercar times and there are a variety of reasons for that.

It would appear from the times in Sports Sedan P1 and P2 that many cars have gone out on slicks to familiarise themselves with the layout. I did the same thing in my Sports Sedan when I raced at Amaroo back in 1998 when it was ****ing down rain on the Friday morning. If I had bolted my hand grooved slicks on, I would have gone about five-seven seconds faster. Big deal. It fined up at lunchtime and remained fine all weekend.

There is a certain reluctance to hand-groove a $2200.00 set of slicks to bolt on to prove how much of a hero you are in a practice session that does not count towards qualifying. The Dunlop tyres the majority of competitors run are too hard to be used effectively as hand grooved wets anyway. Most S/S competitors use old Pirelli or Goodyear wets off Trans-Am cars because they fit the wheels many of them use. These Goodyears and Pirelli's are often 5-10 years old and virtually useless.

Originally posted by GTRMagic
I recall a certain young man driving an ex-B&H M3 running in sports sedans in the wet and making a name for himself by trouncing the so-called experts in less than nice conditions....

In defence of the so-called experts - from memory, the car above was competing on wets specifically designed for that car, the right compound for the weight of vehicle. The BMW was basically over-tyred for dry conditions which made it a demon in the wet. The so-called experts are driving cars which are undertyred in the dry let alone the wet. When you are spinning the wheels at half throttle in top gear down the straight you are always going to be up against it.

I'll quickly go into the issues the majority of S/S competitors face with the lack of funding etc. We don't have five-ten guys employed to pour over the car changing to wet setups. Nor do most of us have data engineers etc. to assist in the same. Neither do many have brand new wets mounted and ready to bolt onto our cars. Why? Because although we are a Premier category according to CAMS, the dollars available in motor sport are siphoned directly to the top as you well know. We are essentially enthusiastic amateurs or business owners who have to take a week off work to be at an interstate race meeting.

If the question you are really asking Racetime is "why do you guys bother??" then we'll keep them in the garage just for you to save ourselves the embarassment.

CD.

[FalconEL]

Originally posted by RaceTime
Think the word you are looking for, Crash, is wimps! Both Sports Sedans and Formula Holden's dislike the rain so much they try to have the sessions/races cancelled if it is wet.

(Formula Holden use the excuse they don't have wet weather tyres....)

And they call these 'racing categories'.........

I guess I'm fairly surprised to be categorised as a Sports Sedan "wimp" by someone I thought knew better and I thought had a broader view of the bigger picture. Things must look pretty tame from the relative safety of the Timing Room. Can't say I've ever criticised anyone in the timing room before myself.......

There are a select few people who have had the oppotunity to drive 600+ horsepower Sports Sedans in wet conditions and I'm one of them. Yes, they are a pig. They p*#s water in everywhere and they fog up (remembering our lexan windscreens do not have any form of demisting capability). You can't see that well because the use of a wiper on a lexan windscreen immediately ruins a $500.00 piece of lexan (so we use Rain-x and no wipers).

Then you have the added issue of trying to get the power down in cars that struggle to do so in the dry let alone wet conditions.

Despite the above, I love driving in those conditions with all the factors I've listed taken into account. It is awesome. But I conceed, we aren't doing V8 supercar times and there are a variety of reasons for that.

It would appear from the times in Sports Sedan P1 and P2 that many cars have gone out on slicks to familiarise themselves with the layout. I did the same thing in my Sports Sedan when I raced at Amaroo back in 1998 when it was ****ing down rain on the Friday morning. If I had bolted my hand grooved slicks on, I would have gone about five-seven seconds faster. Big deal. It fined up at lunchtime and remained fine all weekend.

There is a certain reluctance to hand-groove a $2200.00 set of slicks to bolt on to prove how much of a hero you are in a practice session that does not count towards qualifying. The Dunlop tyres the majority of competitors run are too hard to be used effectively as hand grooved wets anyway. Most S/S competitors use old Pirelli or Goodyear wets off Trans-Am cars because they fit the wheels many of them use. These Goodyears and Pirelli's are often 5-10 years old and virtually useless.

Originally posted by GTRMagic
I recall a certain young man driving an ex-B&H M3 running in sports sedans in the wet and making a name for himself by trouncing the so-called experts in less than nice conditions....

In defence of the so-called experts - from memory, the car above was competing on wets specifically designed for that car, the right compound for the weight of vehicle. The BMW was basically over-tyred for dry conditions which made it a demon in the wet. The so-called experts are driving cars which are undertyred in the dry let alone the wet. When you are spinning the wheels at half throttle in top gear down the straight you are always going to be up against it.

I'll quickly go into the issues the majority of S/S competitors face with the lack of funding etc. We don't have five-ten guys employed to pour over the car changing to wet setups. Nor do most of us have data engineers etc. to assist in the same. Neither do many have brand new wets mounted and ready to bolt onto our cars. Why? Because although we are a Premier category according to CAMS, the dollars available in motor sport are siphoned directly to the top as you well know. We are essentially enthusiastic amateurs or business owners who have to take a week off work to be at an interstate race meeting.

If the question you are really asking Racetime is "why do you guys bother??" then we'll keep them in the garage just for you to save ourselves the embarassment.

CD.

[RaceTime]

Just making sure we read it eh?

I wasn't targeting the comment at anyone in particular, however, I will stand by what I said - and yes - this is looking at it from the timing room.

I have been at a number of metings over the past few years where a race has been cancelled because (in the case of the F/Holdens) they 'didn't have wet weather tyres' and (for the Sports Sedans) it was too wet!

Well sorry if you take umbrage at this - but motor racing is all about racing - wet or dry. If ANY driver or team isn't prepared for either condition or prepared to race in either condition, maybe they should get off the track and let people who want to RACE get on.

Whether they have funding or not is beside the point really - they have entered a NATIONAL championship - they cannot expect every race meeting to be dry (well sorry - the Formula Holden guys can).

What next? The track is too hot, or too cold - so we can't race?

As I said - not targeted at anyone in particular - but these two national categories (and please note I am saying NATIONAL as I am well aware the state level guys can and do race in the wet) appear to not want to race under ANY adverse conditions.

[RaceTime]

Just to make it fair - IF it becomes fine on Sunday and the same number of cars in each category take to the track then I will gladly apologise - can't be fairer than that.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by FalconEL
Despite the above, I love driving in those conditions with all the factors I've listed taken into account. It is awesome. But I conceed, we aren't doing V8 supercar times and there are a variety of reasons for that.

I never suggested you were or should be and I certainly would not compare you to them

It would appear from the times in Sports Sedan P1 and P2 that many cars have gone out on slicks to familiarise themselves with the layout. I did the same thing in my Sports Sedan when I raced at Amaroo back in 1998 when it was ****ing down rain on the Friday morning. If I had bolted my hand grooved slicks on, I would have gone about five-seven seconds faster. Big deal. It fined up at lunchtime and remained fine all weekend.

First i would hope that none of them tried or where permitted to go out on a wet track in slicks - this would IMHO show the sheer stupidity of the driver if they tried. Sorry - but when it comes to any form of safety I call a spade a bloody shovel...

If the question you are really asking Racetime is "why do you guys bother??" then we'll keep them in the garage just for you to save ourselves the embarassment.

CD.

No that isn't the question I was asking and I think you know it - but, I have said it before and I will say it again - the Formula Holden category is a joke worse than Super Tourers at present. Small fields which become even smaller as the weekend wears on.

Yes yes yes - I know - highly strung machinery - but that doesn't excuse the fact that 4 or 5 cars dropping out of a 10 car field is a hell of a lot more noticeable that 4 or 5 dropping our of a full grid of 20-30 cars.

Sports Sedans - again my thoughts on the NATIONAL category are well documented. The field IS a technological one that is too easily broken - more often than not by body contact and NOT mechanical failure - so where does the blame for that lay? The category is also embedded with egos - not so much on the track but also in the organisation side of the category - too often tracks are blackamiled by the ASSA at a meeting and this does NOT help the category win any friends (I will admit here my last contact with this admin was just on 15 months ago but, from what I have heard, it didn't change much last year).

[GTRMagic]

Is Holden sponsoring a driver in FH this year, like they did with Rick Kelly?

[05forever]

Sorry to get into the grid debate but as a bludge,

I have a bucks night on Saturday in Newcastle and am perceptive enough to realise that I will most likely not be in a fit state to drive down on Sunday Morn.

I am happy to pay for fuel if anyone is going from or through newcastle to wakefield any time after say 3.am if I can bludge a lift. I may not be awake for the entire journey!

Cheers

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by GTV27
? is this the new name for Formula Holden, or have I missed something (as usual)?

Why don't they just put 5.0 litre V8's in them and go back to the halcyon days of F5000 - use the V8 Supercar rules for the motors and get some economies of scale from the engine builders.

Thats the most sensible thing I've read here for quite a while GTV27

What a great spectacle that would be .... the mufflers might be a bit unsightly though :confused:

Engines ex-V8 Supercar or new would however add atremendously to the cost of the class, then again, if it injected a whole lot more interest then it might just be worth it!!!!

[Bomn]

Originally posted by RaceTime
Well sorry if you take umbrage at this - but motor racing is all about racing - wet or dry. If ANY driver or team isn't prepared for either condition or prepared to race in either condition, maybe they should get off the track and let people who want to RACE get on.

Driving a racecar is like making love, you only do it for your own enjoyment. If anyone thinks otherwise they either haven’t had a go or they are being paid to do it.

[GTRMagic]

What will the Holden mob do with all those old Chev Supercar engines now they have been Aurora-ised?

Maybe they would be a cheap alternative into F4000.. but I struggle to see a change in engine improve the performance of 12 and 13 year old chassis that havent had a proper birthday in a long time

[William Dale Jr]

It may not improve their performance, but they'd sure sound a lot better

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Bomn
Driving a racecar is like making love, you only do it for your own enjoyment. If anyone thinks otherwise they either haven’t had a go or they are being paid to do it.

Bomn you can make love not for just your on enjoymentand it can be the ultimate in fulfillment.....but that another story!!

Miss Ally Drower on Chanel Number 10, just told me that it was going to be clearing maybe tommorrow at Goulburn (17-18 tops). The golden brown Ally looked stunning (then again i didn't have my glasses on!! )

[RaceTime]

Goulburn area forecast:

SOUTHERN TABLELANDS
Tonight
Showers. Isolated thunderstorms mainly in the north. Moderate to fresh north to
northeast winds, gusty at times.

Saturday
Isolated showers tending scattered in the east. Mild. Light to moderate
southwest to southeast winds.

Sunday
Isolated showers more likely in the east. Mild to warm. East to southeast winds.


Monday
Isolated showers with the chance of an afternoon storm in the west. Warm.
Northerly winds.

Tuesday
Chance of isolated afternoon showers and storms in the west. Very warm to hot.
North to northeast winds.

Goulburn for Saturday
Shower or two. Mild. Light to moderate southerly winds.
UV Index 12 [Extreme] decreasing to 8 [Very High] under cloud.
Min:17 Max:24

Goulburn for Sunday
Chance of a shower or two. Warm. East to southeast winds.
Min:16 Max:25

[The Tool Man]

Now weve finished with the ***** Slap Fight can anyone tell us who qualified where today at WP. Especially in Konica V8s ??????

[Bomn]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Bomn you can make love not for just your on enjoymentand it can be the ultimate in fulfillment.....but that another story!!

I bet you drink Jim Beam because you like the taste?

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
The golden brown Ally looked stunning (then again i didn't have my glasses on!! )

Oops obviously not.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by The Tool Man
Now weve finished with the ***** Slap Fight can anyone tell us who qualified where today at WP. Especially in Konica V8s ??????

Konica's don;t practice on Friday's....

http://www.racetime.com.au/?event=i0301

[The Tool Man]

Thanks