Sebastien Bourdais - Page 2

Knowlesy · 11 Apr 2006, 09:49 (Ref:1578378)

That is true. And I think he only won the F3000 title when Enge was disqualified?

Dani Filth · 11 Apr 2006, 10:14 (Ref:1578402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

however it is not lost on any one when Bourdais is out at LeMans,

you do have a point .. if he would be in F1 .. he wouldn't be able to "trash" Martin Short at LeMans

Silk Cut Jaguar · 11 Apr 2006, 11:08 (Ref:1578443)

Bourdais would probably love to move on from ChampCars, afterall, he has nothing left to prove in the championship. The problem is that ChampCar is in a strange position where the only upward move is Formula One and everything else is a fairly large step down into pay-seat formulas.

His only real career chance after CC is to move sideways into a factory Le Mans team. Audi is full but who wants to bet he'll make an appearance with Peugeot?

luke · 11 Apr 2006, 11:26 (Ref:1578453)

I think he's very special. I could see him do well in F1. A shame he isn't in Renault, a French driver winning in a French car, that would be something...
I know Champ Car isn't as competitive as it was once was but its still quite tough and I honestly don't think Bourdais is given his full credit. Maybe we could see that if we have a merge, but he deserves more credit in my opinion then people give him.
For example with Frank Williams after he won his first championship in Mexico 2004 and asked if he could arange a test, Frank wasn't interested, we know the reason and the fact he gave Scott Dixon a test when he just raced on ovals all year but there was the Ganassi connection I could see how Sebastien would be a bit ****ed....But it would be nice if he was given that chance.

avsfan733 · 11 Apr 2006, 12:09 (Ref:1578483)

It has always seemed a shame to me that certain drivers (Bourdais, Davidson) never get a real shot while people like Ide get chances and people like Villenuve, Sato, DC, etc stay past their prime. I think what F1 may need right now is a whole ton of new blood in it. Its been basically the same drivers for far to long

kipper · 11 Apr 2006, 15:22 (Ref:1578620)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

That is true. And I think he only won the F3000 title when Enge was disqualified?

Tomas Enge was disqualified from the Hungary round due to failing a drugs test, which handed the title to Bourdais.

If I remember correctly, Bourdais had little option but move to Champ Cars given that he wasn't well funded and him and Flavio Briatore failed to see eye to eye. Now that he is succeeding in the US, I can't imagine that he would want to stop and take a chance in a poor F1 car, which may lead elsewhere. Although I would like to see him in a top F1 car at some point, but I can't imagine it happening.

BootsOntheSide · 11 Apr 2006, 15:35 (Ref:1578629)

Bourdais hasn't done too badly. His most obvious rivals for the ChampCar title are Junquiera and Wilson, both former F3000 champions, in the 2 years before him. Not to mention Pantano who he pipped to the 2002 F3000 title, who has basically lurched from disaster to disaster ever since.

In most cases, the guys who have the class to win in F1 have been picked up before F3000, or after 1 season at the most. Without oval racing to split it up, and with so few paid drives, ChampCar is becoming the racing equivalent of PE teaching (for people who can't teach or play sport to any standard), ideal if you can't get noticed by F1 or IRL. As we saw on Sunday, even the top drivers can't get through a wide corner without 4 of them beign taken out. The racing can be good and a few of the drivers are talented, but it's a pale shadow of the series JPM won.

BSchneiderFan · 11 Apr 2006, 16:13 (Ref:1578659)

Perhaps BMW's interest will return when Villeneuve's contract ends this year.

Jordi · 11 Apr 2006, 16:55 (Ref:1578689)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Bourdais hasn't done too badly. His most obvious rivals for the ChampCar title are Junquiera and Wilson, both former F3000 champions, in the 2 years before him. Not to mention Pantano who he pipped to the 2002 F3000 title, who has basically lurched from disaster to disaster ever since.

In most cases, the guys who have the class to win in F1 have been picked up before F3000, or after 1 season at the most. Without oval racing to split it up, and with so few paid drives, ChampCar is becoming the racing equivalent of PE teaching (for people who can't teach or play sport to any standard), ideal if you can't get noticed by F1 or IRL. As we saw on Sunday, even the top drivers can't get through a wide corner without 4 of them beign taken out. The racing can be good and a few of the drivers are talented, but it's a pale shadow of the series JPM won.

I think this is rather harsh. A few drivers in the last F1 race failed to finish due to accidents, does that make F1 a pale shadow of what it was?

I think Bourdais could have won in 1995, in 2000 in Champ Car. He's good enough. Had he been managed by Briatore perhaps he'd be F1 champion now but he isn't, so what. He'll be a legend in the States.

From his point of view, he's probably enjoying it more winning races than going round and round with almost no hope of a race drive like PDLR and Davidson do.

BootsOntheSide · 11 Apr 2006, 17:39 (Ref:1578704)

I don't have all the statistics, but I suspect less cars are eliminated by accidents each season in F1 than even 10 years ago.

It's quite possible that Bourdais could have won ChampCar a decade ago. The thing is, we'll never know; when a driver with F1 aspirations wins the series, they are not beating established US stars and the odd ex-F1 driver, and not having to master ovals. Few could claim that either series is currenty as strong as CART was in the immediate post-split years - whether a combined field of the best 10-12 from each would be is debatable.

Agreed with the final point, especially as Bourdais is at least being paid to drive. Ant must be frustrated, and I really think if he has no F1 drive for 2007, he should go and race something else, with the intention of a substitute career.

luke · 11 Apr 2006, 18:07 (Ref:1578719)

The conclusion is Champ Car's gain, and F1's loss.

nickyf1 · 11 Apr 2006, 21:19 (Ref:1578895)

The closest we'll get to seing Sebastiaen driving a Renault is By wathcing his 2002 F3000 races in his renault liveried car.

Knowlesy · 11 Apr 2006, 21:39 (Ref:1578931)

Not true, he drove some actual Renault's in the Race Of Champions last year.

JohnSSC · 12 Apr 2006, 09:28 (Ref:1579278)

I agree with Boots here. I have no dispute with the idea that Bourdais is talented and that he has all the goods to make him a successful F1 driver. Further, he would have done ok had he been racing in the salad days of the old CART series.

The point is now that the ChampCar series is not what it was so his accomplishments do not stand out like they might have in the past. It is not much of a loss for F1 really as there are a number of drivers like Bourdais out there for the Team Managers to choose from. His is not a standout sort of talent like Kimi or Alonso.

Junquiera and Wilson could not make their way into a long-term F1 gig and so landed here. Again, not so much of a loss for F1 as it is an indication of how much good talent is out there as they and a number of other talented drivers have had to go to other series' to get full-time drives.

D.R.T. · 12 Apr 2006, 14:29 (Ref:1579493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Without oval racing to split it up, and with so few paid drives, ChampCar is becoming the racing equivalent of PE teaching (for people who can't teach or play sport to any standard), ideal if you can't get noticed by F1 or IRL.

Boots thats pretty rough, how many drivers go to CC via IRL looking for rides. None too many.

BootsOntheSide · 12 Apr 2006, 17:38 (Ref:1579620)

Fair point DRT, but none of the guys who have gone from ChampCar to IRL have returned. Sorry this has gone a bit off-topic.

sonic · 13 Apr 2006, 13:28 (Ref:1580400)

It's interesting Ant is likened to Bourdais here. Both in a similar predicament, despite taking quite different paths to get to where they are.

No matter how many times ant goes fastest on fridays people will say (rightly so in 2006, less so in 04) that he is only quickest because the race drivers aren't trying.

No matter how many CC titles Bourdais wins, who is he beating? A bunch of hasbeens and nevergonnabes.

Wheldon has a similar problem to a certain extent. So, you're great at going round in circles.

Meanwhile a joker like Ide tankslaps his way around 2 seconds a lap slower than a turtle with a leadlined cement shell. And proven mid grid plodders like DC, Bazza, Ralf get to race season after season after season. yawn.

Ah well, It's just a shame never to get a chance isn't it. Roll on 2008.

**Born Racer** · 14 Apr 2006, 20:29 (Ref:1582472)

Why do Renault and Bourdais not get along?

JeremySmith · 14 Apr 2006, 23:39 (Ref:1582615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Why do Renault and Bourdais not get along?

Something to do with Flavio and Bourdais I believe, correct me if I am wrong folks..

Knowlesy · 14 Apr 2006, 23:40 (Ref:1582617)

Something along those lines, yes.

JeremySmith · 14 Apr 2006, 23:44 (Ref:1582620)

Is not just a personal problem between the two of them Knowlwsy..Silly really that they would let that type of thing get in the way, whatever that type of thing is? Talented driver, successful team manager!

Mr V · 14 Apr 2006, 23:46 (Ref:1582623)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Silly really that they would let that type of thing get in the way, whatever that type of thing is? Talented driver, successful team manager!

Commision? 10% ? 20% ?

Not saying that is the reason, but it's as good as any for someone not driving for you

JeremySmith · 16 Apr 2006, 04:00 (Ref:1583313)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Commision? 10% ? 20% ?

Not saying that is the reason, but it's as good as any for someone not driving for you

You just might have a point there sir

Peter Nightingale · 19 Apr 2006, 07:51 (Ref:1588380)

I think his personality ,age and driving style are all against him , for a seat in F1....

Kicking-back · 19 Apr 2006, 09:55 (Ref:1588474)

The problem is we don't know how good he is.

He won F3000 (well, had it handed to him) in a poor season of that category, and is now beating no-one of note in Champ Car, while driving comfortably the best car (Cristiano da Matta, anyone).

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