New small and family cars

[coppice]

True - but it is probably faster than a Cooper S , GT6 , TR4 , and possibly Sunbeam Tiger or MGC , grips better and uses a third the fuel. Like yourself , unless you have actually driven the awful garbage of back in the day it's difficult to comprehend how ghastly they were . Had to smile at a recent Pistonheads thread where perfectly fit for purpose cars like Astras were described as appallingly bad, dangerously slow and plagued by huge understeer - try an Austin Cambridge Estate with a tired B series and running on remoulds and I will show you bad my friend .....

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by coppice

I really don't buy the contempt for most modern cars- having had the misfortune of driving utter crap from 60s-eg Viva HA; 70s- eg Allegro ; 80s eg Nissan Bluebird and 90s eg Peugeot 106D most modern cars are far , far more capable, more safe in a shunt and much better on mpg. Nobody loves the look of an Elan, an early 911 or a 275gtb more than I do but let's just remember the hideous rubbish foisted on the car buying public in the past .....

a valid point but how much did you have to pay for those cars?

using that ford fiesta as an example...this car new in Canada starts at about CAN$20k(including taxes)....a person working full time in Canada (40 hours a week) at our minimum wage (between $10-11/hour) only makes 21K a year before they pay income taxes...and the fiesta is one of the cheaper entry level options.

i cant imagine any of the cars you drove back then ate up that much of your salary.

anyways, at todays prices (and relative to current average incomes) and especially for those looking at entry level vehicles in the small or family car segment these cars do not meet any sort of definition of value imo.

and they are ugly to boot!

[Matt]

I don't care how much better modern cars are. They're ugly. Gimme any 80's sled over anything modern.

[coppice]

The 80s were probably the nadir of car styling- whilst I was fond of my Golf GTis looks -and the 205 was easy on the eye too - there was a plethora of horrors -Escort (especially in all white Turbo form) , Granada, Acclaim ,Metro, Ital , Starion , TR7 etc.Or the ghastly Mondiale and Testa Rossa further up market.

Re prices- cars are far cheaper now than at any time in history- it's why there are so many of the damn things.1959 Mini cost £497 and had no equipment worth beans , not even a heater . Now equivalent of £10 500 , two grand more than a host of small, well equipped and safe cars from Hyundai, Skoda etc . And because modern cars don't fall in bits and rust away after 2 years, buying a 4 or 5 year old car now means years of trouble free driving for pennies

[Matt]

Originally Posted by coppice

The 80s were probably the nadir of car styling- whilst I was fond of my Golf GTis looks -and the 205 was easy on the eye too - there was a plethora of horrors -Escort (especially in all white Turbo form) , Granada, Acclaim ,Metro, Ital , Starion , TR7 etc.Or the ghastly Mondiale and Testa Rossa further up market.

Re prices- cars are far cheaper now than at any time in history- it's why there are so many of the damn things.1959 Mini cost £497 and had no equipment worth beans , not even a heater . Now equivalent of £10 500 , two grand more than a host of small, well equipped and safe cars from Hyundai, Skoda etc . And because modern cars don't fall in bits and rust away after 2 years, buying a 4 or 5 year old car now means years of trouble free driving for pennies

All better looking than current cars, bar the TR7 and Mondial.

Current cars are too melted looking with too many curves and slashes in the bodywork. 80's cars were clean. Plus, you could actually see out of them.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by coppice

Re prices- cars are far cheaper now than at any time in history- it's why there are so many of the damn things.1959 Mini cost £497 and had no equipment worth beans , not even a heater . Now equivalent of £10 500 , two grand more than a host of small, well equipped and safe cars from Hyundai, Skoda etc . And because modern cars don't fall in bits and rust away after 2 years, buying a 4 or 5 year old car now means years of trouble free driving for pennies

they are also made out of plastic and require authorized mechanics to work on them (or wave goodbye to your warranty) so i actually think they are more expensive to maintain.

cheaper is a relative term but imo they are certainly not more affordable but perhaps this is more of an issue in N.America.

[coppice]

Yup- they are made out of plastic - which tends to last longer than the recycled baked bin tins most British Leyland cars employed.

More expensive to maintain ??? My late father's Triumph Vitesse (to name but one blast from the past )needed oil changes every 5k miles or less and near constant attention to plugs and points; it started rusting at 18months and synchro on second also knackered by then; overdrive worked intermittently. It was a sports saloon which had zero grip in the wet and not much more in the dry; the windows bowed out at 70 mph and the engine noise was pleasant but deafening .It struggled to seat 4 adults

My daily driver has a 3 cylinder 1 litre turbo and seats 4 big people ;it has 125bhp -25 % more than 2 litre Vitesse; it cruises in silence at 90mph and does 45mpg - not the 23 mpg of the Triumph. It needs a service every 12k miles ...

Good old days...forget it !

[chillibowl]

thats one of the differences for this side of the pond (and latitude).

we have to services our cars not just based on distance but change of seasons.

20cm of snow yesterday with another 5-10 coming today followed by a week of -30C....and the crazy part is that just a couple of months ago is was +30C.

with extremes like that cost becomes more of an issue so no doubt i am looking at it more from that side of things.

however one thing does make me feel nostalgic for the old day...the amount of heat my old mans late model V8 pontiac safari station wagon cranked out puts my new(ish) 1.8l turbo vw jetta to shame.

forget seat and steering wheel warmers just give me a heater that works in the winter!!!

[NaBUru38]

Kia Picanto

[NaBUru38]

Toyota Yaris with over 210hp

[Truckosaurus]

I'm not convinced by the wing or the paintwork on that Yaris, but I'm sure it would be amusing to drive to work in.

[NaBUru38]

Seat Ibiza Mk5

[tim dodwell]

I feel sorry in some ways for all those with diesel cars, as prices will soon crash as folk are already slowly abandoning them - due to inevitable action being taken soon against them. Cities banning them are not far off, which will make life difficult for their owners, and the doctors body (BMA) has called for action to be taken due to the harm to folk's lungs. We saw a program recently that said the average diesel car emits twice as much muck as a lorry!!
Petrol engines are getting close to their realtime mpg - the TSI engines fitted to VW, Skoda, Seat, and Audi for example, are amazing. We got over 46mpg (averaged over the last two years) from a 2011 1.4 Octavia (not tiny, and it doesn't hang about). We will stick to these engines for the future as a result, but other companies (like Ford for example) do as good a job.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by tim dodwell

I feel sorry in some ways for all those with diesel cars, as prices will soon crash as folk are already slowly abandoning them - due to inevitable action being taken soon against them. Cities banning them are not far off, which will make life difficult for their owners, and the doctors body (BMA) has called for action to be taken due to the harm to folk's lungs. We saw a program recently that said the average diesel car emits twice as much muck as a lorry!!
Petrol engines are getting close to their realtime mpg - the TSI engines fitted to VW, Skoda, Seat, and Audi for example, are amazing. We got over 46mpg (averaged over the last two years) from a 2011 1.4 Octavia (not tiny, and it doesn't hang about). We will stick to these engines for the future as a result, but other companies (like Ford for example) do as good a job.

I couldn't agree more. I recently reduced my annual mileage from 30k to around 15k, and changed my VAG 1.6 Tdi for a VAG 1.2 Tsi. It has surprised me with its performance - not exactly earth-shattering, but the little turbo gives it the ability to accelerate past heavy traffic in the same manner as the diesel, with a lot less noise. I do a fair bit of town driving, but I average around 45mpg, as opposed to the diesel's 50mpg. They're cracking good little motors, and Ford's 1.0 unit is equally impressive - my daughter drove a Focus equipped with one, and couldn't believe the smooth delivery and adequate performance of such a small engine. They're the future.

[NaBUru38]

Hyundai Accent

[NaBUru38]

Dacia Logan MCV Stepway



Hyundai i30 CrossWagon

[NaBUru38]

Suzuki Swift

[wnut]

Originally Posted by nicanary

I couldn't agree more. I recently reduced my annual mileage from 30k to around 15k, and changed my VAG 1.6 Tdi for a VAG 1.2 Tsi. It has surprised me with its performance - not exactly earth-shattering, but the little turbo gives it the ability to accelerate past heavy traffic in the same manner as the diesel, with a lot less noise. I do a fair bit of town driving, but I average around 45mpg, as opposed to the diesel's 50mpg. They're cracking good little motors, and Ford's 1.0 unit is equally impressive - my daughter drove a Focus equipped with one, and couldn't believe the smooth delivery and adequate performance of such a small engine. They're the future.

... and no KERS inefficiency!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Suzuki Swift

I don't like it. Looks to female.

[Matt]

lmao what

[NaBUru38]

BMW Brilliance 1 Series

Front wheel drive
Same platform as Mini, Z1 and 2er Active Tourer
Made in China

[FIRE]

Would be a nice touring car for BTCC and WTCC.

[NaBUru38]

It's 4.45 m long, versus 4.62 m of the 3 Series.

[FIRE]

4-door 2 Series

[NaBUru38]

Volkswagen Polo