Bike engined race cars

[Count 'Johnny' Spinoza]

Originally Posted by andy97

I was at the British Superbikes meeting at Donington on saturday & the commentator made the same observation about lubrication problems in the sidecar racers because they don't lean like their bike cousins.

Hi Andy

This is all manageable in a car.

On the R1 (and Gixer) motors fitted with a specially designed baffle, we simply fill to the top of the sight glass, thoroughly warm the oil, rev it to 3000rpm for at least 10 seconds (note that the oil level drops to ~ half way down the sight glass when we do so) and pour in oil until there's just a small bubble at the top. Obviously, this robs a little power and the oil takes a bit of a pasting, but we pull well over 2G in the corners and the oil pressure is rock solid and regularly replacing oil is cheaper than replacing engine parts on the same frequency.

Most folk with 'Busa motors dry sump them but, then, they've got the extra power to drag around all of the associated gubbins and extra oil with them.

[gixermark]

are the gixer engiend stohr's running wet or dry sump Iain ?

If you happen to know whether the majority of the F1 sidecar guys run wet or dry ot would be interesting too.... I'm thinking K4 & the K5 variant

[Jeff 8]

A few years ago lots of F1 sidecars went to dry sumps, but now many are using wet sumps. Sidecars don't pull as many Gs as winged cars and also spend a lot more time wheelspinning with only one drive wheel. They are using full throttle more than solo bikes use and until recently were allowed unlimited engine mods so many were chasing max power at the expense of reliability. Many sidecar championships, world and British for example, now are mechanically standard and less engine problems seem to have followed.

Jeff

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[Count 'Johnny' Spinoza]

Originally Posted by gixermark

are the gixer engiend stohr's running wet or dry sump Iain ?

If you happen to know whether the majority of the F1 sidecar guys run wet or dry ot would be interesting too.... I'm thinking K4 & the K5 variant

All of the GIXER DSR Stohrs are wet sumped and filled as described above.

Some also run an Accusump which (for the uninitiated) is like a big syringe which automatically injects oil into the system at times of 'need'.

[gixermark]

thats interesting..... i know many of the K5 gixer engined Jedi's run dry (the factory preference) but i recently learnt that some do use wet sump (bafled etc) and i assume slight overfil as you suggest Iain

the Stohr's would most certainly pull higher G's than a Jedi thats for sure...

Sidecars are tough on engines - so again, IF they can survive on wet ok....

[GRAZO]

Speads race car spares i think you can get some from peter allen at www.aztecmotorsport.com
graham

[Code Red Man.]

Who is the chap that runs a Suzuki Capuccino with a 'busa engine?
There a a few Youtube vids of it going very well indeed!

When we ran a Radical for a chap, it killed his 1500cc in spa due to lube problems, the only other thing we experienced was the engine casing on the hayabusa cracking if the engine had a dodgy/bad battery and the engine kicked back.

[Count 'Johnny' Spinoza]

Originally Posted by GRAZO

Speads race car spares i think you can get some from peter allen at www.aztecmotorsport.com
graham

Sadly, there is very little that is left on my Speads that is Speads - hence all the one-offs and big bills.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Code Red Man.

Who is the chap that runs a Suzuki Capuccino with a 'busa engine?
There a a few Youtube vids of it going very well indeed!

Wayne Schofield of "Chipwizards" near Rochdale.

[Ken_T]

Most of the Stohr DSRs and DSRs in general do not run the Dry Sump due to weight. The rules for DSR specify a minimum weight of 900 lbs with driver and the Stohr WF1 is very difficult to bring to minimum without significant expenditure. The extra weight from the dry sump isnt deemed necessary with the wet sump pans that have been designed.

The other major bike engined car class in the states is F1000 (or FB). Opened wheeled, 1000 cc, but at a minimum weight of 1000 lbs with driver. I just sold my Stohr F1000 this past year. Several of the drivers in that series opt for the dry sump as they have a few pounds to give.

Ken

[jenson10]

I know the Globals with the self destructive motor tendences, stock 2006 motors with heat exchanger removed and separate oil coolers fitted, every thing possible was done to keep everything cool, fuel, oil, water the final time one of them blew up the lambda was spot on, water temp very good and oil temp very good, the failures in the end I believe were down to, the side pod ducts had a extra rad fitted in one and a oil cooler fitted in the other, those side pod ducts orginally guided air flow over the exhausts and the front of the engine, I believe that by blocking up the said ducts and blowing hot air in it just pushed the motors over the limit, I think the motors were on the limit of what they could do weight wise, the Jedis are 100kg lighter and do not have these issues, the issues got more apparent and regular when the extra rads/coolers were fitted. Older motor being refitted in to one of the cars, hoping to be out in 2012.

[Count 'Johnny' Spinoza]

Originally Posted by jenson10

...Older motor being refitted in to one of the cars, hoping to be out in 2012...

Nice One Graham. Early injected R1, or back to carbs?

And Bike Sports or OSS? Or a bit of both? And Keith? Will he be out at all?

Right now, I'm planning to do Bike Sports (without crashing too much, the wheels falling off, suspension collapsing, or spending a large fortune on development ) and I have the full support of the Countess 'Frillers' Spinoza (not). Obviously, I discuss my expenditure on the car in Motorsport Pounds (which is, generally, a factor of 1/100) so what the eye doesn't see...

Anyway, because my car's a single seater (kinda) thing, I'm in Class B with the 1300 'Busa cars, but there should be plenty for you to play with in Class C.

In case you didn't know, there's now a Bike Sports forum on the 750 MC site and James Breakall has bravely stepped up to the plate as Formula Rep.

[jenson10]

I am going back to a older model R1 running on carbs, Keith older injected R1, unsure what series I will be running, due to having a little baby, new house, getting married etc, but the car will be up running and ready to go, just been stripped cleaned and now being rebuilt, all moving parts checked and replaced as required, I did not realise how dirty my car was. I am thinking that I may mix and match the races, I liked the way OSS is run and you got all the track time you were supposed to get but the grids were bigger at bikesports, for the 1000cc anyhow, may even try hill climbing? hows yours coming along?

[Count 'Johnny' Spinoza]

Hi Mate

Sorry, forgot. Many congratulations on your marriage and the new house and addition to the family.

Following my little erm...'contretemp' at Brands, there was a bit to do.


So far:

• Front crash structure - New item designed, manufactured and fitted;
• Front Splitter - Small split repaired;
• LHF Wishbone - Replaced and spare made;
• Rear Wishbones - Redesigned, and manufactured;
• Rear Bulkhead - New billet item being designed and manufactured as I write.

To do:

• Rear wing support structure - Remanufacture, so it fits properly:
• Brakes - Fit Polymatrix A's so we have some (brakes that is):
• Steering Column - Remanufacture and replace;
• Bodywork - Tidy and make pretty.

Depending upon the detail (like a reasonable calendar) I'm expecting to commit to Bikesports for 2012.

One of the vagueries of their class structure is that - although I've only got a thousand car - I'm lumped in with the 1300cc Prosports and 1340cc SR4's in Class B but, driven by hotshoes, the car has run a 46.6 at Brands and a minute seven at the old Snett so - were I to actually pull my finger out and not be such a girl - the car could be pretty competitive in that class.

As you no-doubt know, you'd drop neatly into Class C.

[zipperkarting]

Hi
I'm currently running a Speads RS08 with 1300 Hayabusa just for Track Days.
My first outing was a disaster. I demolished the complete top end, I assume from downshifting at too high revs. Well at least that is what I was told.
My motor was a Powertune motor so I was a bit upset.
However I bought another stock 2006 motor having been told it was probably as quick as a 1999 Powertune.
It seems OK to me but I've just purchased a Powertune ported cylinder head with APE valves and adjustable cams that I want to fit on the stock bottom end.
Can anyone see any problem with this? Will it bolt straight on without further mods?
Also thinking about a slipper clutch as I assume this will help with the downshifting also. Any views on this would be appreciated.
Many thanks

Originally Posted by Count 'Johnny' Spinoza

Whoops!

I got so carried away with engine stuff that I forgot to answer the OP's questions fully.

What it costs is a bit of a variable but my pal, JP, reckoned he did a full Bikesports season (including petrol for the tow car) for about seven grand.

Because I'm forever developing my car, I've never done a full season - or anything like it - and being busy and useless, I get someone else to prepare and repair my car, tow it to the circuit and provide on circuit support. It's also a very complex car so, adding in all of those factors, I spend a LOT more.

So, all in all, if your doing most of your own your own spannering and not forever launching the car at the scenery, I reckon 10k might be a reasonable budget for a full season in Bikesports and around the same for RGB.

On the subject of tyres, it's certainly true that, in the Radical Club Cup, they are fitting new tyres like they're going out of fashion but, for Bikesports, two or three sets per season should be plenty.

As for what car to buy - as much as I hate to say it - I think buying a Radical is a no brainer, really.

Global Lights are now a bit long in the tooth and Speads ownership can be only slightly less painful than root canal work without novacaine, so I'm dead jealous of the proven products with good support and spares availablity that Radical owners enjoy.

What model of Radical is largely a matter of where you want to be on the grid. A tidy, upgraded, Clubsport will be cheap to buy and run, but won't get you right to the pointy end, whereas a PR6 will be more expensive to buy, will get you to the pointy end but, at the pointy end, you'll find yourself running with the big boys with big wallets. On balance, for Bikesports, a 1300/1340 Busa engined SR4 isn't a bad choice and will give you lots of fun in the mid-field.

Hope this is of help.

C 'J' S

[helgi]

Digging this thread to ask a question. I've watched today's stream from Croft, commentators are great and they have lots of useful tech info but, as usual, I need even more (written one is better to remmember) Are there any media sources that combine all the tech stuff news from RGBs, Sports 1000 and other constructors' championships? Sometimes "Motorsport News" have some, but not quite often. Thanks in advance!

[ydd]

Originally Posted by helgi

Digging this thread to ask a question. I've watched today's stream from Croft, commentators are great and they have lots of useful tech info but, as usual, I need even more (written one is better to remmember) Are there any media sources that combine all the tech stuff news from RGBs, Sports 1000 and other constructors' championships? Sometimes "Motorsport News" have some, but not quite often. Thanks in advance!

You might want to have a look at the championship regs. Whilst they give you the competition rules, they also give you a lot of details on the cars, whats allowed and not allowed. For example here is the Sports1000 regs

https://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/spo...egulations.htm