The Future of Motorsport and Sportscars Role in it.

[Speed-King]

Just FYI: There's a big difference between climate and weather...

[Justin Moran]

I feel that owing to the current political and near religous fanatasism that accompanies this alledged MMGW, motorsport is doing what it feels is the only way to survive and is embracing "green" technology. Now, we do not yet know what the final consequences of this are going to be, only time will tell. But for now they have to humour the politicians for its they who grant the licenses to allow the teams to race for our entertainment.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by C9/89

I feel that owing to the current political and near religous fanatasism that accompanies this alledged MMGW, motorsport is doing what it feels is the only way to survive and is embracing "green" technology. Now, we do not yet know what the final consequences of this are going to be, only time will tell. But for now they have to humour the politicians for its they who grant the licenses to allow the teams to race for our entertainment.

True, i think its BS, but if motorsport doesen't get its finger out it'll get banned.

The way to defeat the green movement is to make it irrelevant by finding technological solutions to the problem, the stuff i posted on the first page about algae fuel would be a major coup in terms of stopping the green movement.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Just FYI: There's a big difference between climate and weather...

YES there is and why the current average global temp is 12* F lower then 100 years ago, and 15*F lower then 1000 years ago.

[zac510]

Global Warming or not, a wasteful, arrogant attitude towards the world's resources (particularly crude oil) is enough for motorsport to be portrayed in a bad light. This is where 'green technology' can score points for motorsport.

Even in the home the global warming movement doesn't need to be about climate control - it can merely be about preserving resources and not being wasteful. What good reason is there to use the #2 flush for a #1? None. What reason to have your central heating on all day when you're not home? None. It's just about saving the country's resources in a sensible manner, not about defeating hippies.

If we all in motorsport took a strong attitude towards caring for resources in the home rather than fighting the idea of climate control we'd get friendly enough with the greenies that we couldn't be guilty of anything. I think they're struggling to get large, organised groups of people on their side.

[old man]

Once a manufacturer can claim he won by using less fuel he will do so and organisers should devise a way of offering manufcturers and engine builders that opportunity. Fuel efficiency and emmissions are headline news all over the world at the moment, even in China where the atmosphere will cause olympic competitors great problems and become the talking point of the event.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by old man

Once a manufacturer can claim he won by using less fuel he will do so and organisers should devise a way of offering manufcturers and engine builders that opportunity. Fuel efficiency and emmissions are headline news all over the world at the moment, even in China where the atmosphere will cause olympic competitors great problems and become the talking point of the event.

China will shut down all manufacturing within 100 km of Beijing 2 months BEFORE the Games state in an ATTEMPT to clean up the air quality during the Games.

[Mal]

Global warming or not, it is clear that the worlds current energy resources (ie Oil) are being used up at an ever increasing rate. You can put your head in the sand and say I dont care as it doesnt affect me, just as you say I dont give a damn about the guy in the little car as long as I am OK.

Sportscar racing and motorsport ingeneral can get back to the days when it was led by a technology drive and not a sales pitch and this to me is what ACO style sportscars is all about.

To me the ACO, for its premier class, should come up with a maximum amount of energy that a car can use in a race and then see what the manufacturers come up with.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

YES there is and why the current average global temp is 12* F lower then 100 years ago, and 15*F lower then 1000 years ago.

I am sure some will claim its a fix and debunk them, and I agree 'facts' are hard to come by when you talk about weather systems, but the Met office site has some interesting information re trends of weather and the direction it is currently taking.
Met Office

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by Mal

Global warming or not, it is clear that the worlds current energy resources (ie Oil) are being used up at an ever increasing rate. You can put your head in the sand and say I dont care as it doesnt affect me, just as you say I dont give a damn about the guy in the little car as long as I am OK.

Sportscar racing and motorsport ingeneral can get back to the days when it was led by a technology drive and not a sales pitch and this to me is what ACO style sportscars is all about.

To me the ACO, for its premier class, should come up with a maximum amount of energy that a car can use in a race and then see what the manufacturers come up with.

A fuel formula? Group C as I stated in my first post!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by C9/89

A fuel formula? Group C as I stated in my first post!

Yes but group C was just about petrol, this should open the barriers to other forms of energy.

[The Badger]

Im all in favour for a fuel formula . It fits in with the currant greeny effort and lets manufacturers do what they basically like , but you have to work with a given amount of fuel . Running outta fuel didnt happen all that often !!!

Ask Frank Biela ..... he did that without a fuel formula !!!

[Mal]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Im all in favour for a fuel formula . It fits in with the currant greeny effort and lets manufacturers do what they basically like , but you have to work with a given amount of fuel . Running outta fuel didnt happen all that often !!!

Ask Frank Biela ..... he did that without a fuel formula !!!

It needs to be enough fuel to allow the flat out racing we have seen recently rather than an ecomony run. The point is it needs to exploit different types of fuel and also things like regenerative braking could credit energy back thus enabling those coming up with the most efficient system to run a more powerful car. It need to rewards innovation.

I would like to see more freedom on weight as well to allow weight saving technology to be exploited as well.

I am by no means a techie so I am sure someone will shoot me down but I think the rules should be simple

ie:

XXXXX Joules of outside energy allowed (ie self produced energy is free)
General dimension and bodywork restrictions

Now go and play.

This should apply only to the flagship 'manufacturer class' To me P2, GT1 and Gt2 should then remain largely as is.

[zac510]

Originally Posted by Mal

Global warming or not, it is clear that the worlds current energy resources (ie Oil) are being used up at an ever increasing rate. You can put your head in the sand and say I dont care as it doesnt affect me, just as you say I dont give a damn about the guy in the little car as long as I am OK.

Yes Mal, that's what I was trying to say.
It's this individual arrogance that will kill wasteful motorsport (or any establishment) when it is pushed by this 'green' issue!

[GTfour]

More and more scientists debunk the entire global warming tale,simply because it is NOT in our hands.
Mother earth warms up thrue all kinds of massive changes and has done so for many miljons of years without us humans.

As for being more efficient with our organic fuels,look at the wastefull ways we still use plastics(fast food chains,unnecessairy use of packiging food in triple layers of plastic)or see the amount of lighting left on for cheering up entire bussines complexes at night when nobody is working there.
All possibillities to save our global fossil fuel storage.
And I haven't touched the possibillities of winning crude oil from wells we thought were untouchable to us with the old technoligies...

I think it's a good thing to encourage the use of alternative propulsions in sportscar racing,however,we should surely say "NO" to the thought that "the greenies" are gonne get an ever bigger say in our beloved sport.
As it stands now,evermore citizens of european countries are getting fed up with the unrealistic doomsday projections of these hypocrits and one should realize that their days of being able to scare people with fals data are quickly comming to an end.
For a large percentage we have free newsgathering on the net to thank for that.

[Mal]

That doesnt mean its a good think to waste energy or any resource. As I said I would like to see the sport technology driven and not marketing driven.

Setting energy challenges would do that.

[Bob Riebe]

Ah yes the return of the Mobil Fuel Economy run, my, my what an exciting event that was.

We have this talk of "alternative fuel" without one thought to the energy it takes to produce that fuel, and totally ignoring the amount of fuel necessary to produce amounts to make more than bs dent while trying to replace oil, and you boys are crying the sky-is-falling we are running out of oil, despite all the oil reserves still off limits in the US because the political jack-asses can use them to gain votes--at the same time having a to hell with the energy problems opening them up will solve.

If you want to speak of alternative energy, to limit it to subjects just involving cars is asinine, you cannot pick and choose a point in resources, and ignore all the rest "alternative" energy legislation does or would involve.

At this point the greenies are going apoplectic over new coal plants being built, even though there is ZERO shortage of coal.
Oh yes, that is right CO2, blah, blah, blah ....

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Mal

That doesnt mean its a good think to waste energy or any resource. As I said I would like to see the sport technology driven and not marketing driven.
Setting energy challenges would do that.

DEFINE---waste.
By whose standards?
Lowest common denominator?
Yup, that always works in a world ruled by arrogant fools and wannabe twits.

[AU N EGL]

energy can not be waisted. It is converted from one souce to another, that is all.

[GTfour]

[quote=Bob Riebe]Ah yes the return of the Mobil Fuel Economy run, my, my what an exciting event that was.



If one were to stop all human activities were fossil fuels are being "waisted",this planet would surely be a very boring place...

Let's name a few:

-Producing plastic toys for children.(Wood is a nono too,deforrestation!)
-No more sightseeing boats for tourists.
-No more racing of cars,boats,planes,snowscooters etc.
-No more RC models...o wait that's allready gone in the toy section..
-No more holidays using fossil fuel transport.

...

I could go on for hours.

Let's face it,the development of alternative sorts of energy will only truely take off when our fossil fuels are drained.
And even then,mankind's resourcefulness is so amazing that I don't worry about being short of energy anytime soon. If ever really...

[zac510]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

DEFINE---waste.
By whose standards?
Lowest common denominator?
Yup, that always works in a world ruled by arrogant fools and wannabe twits.

GTFour gave some definitions of poor use of energy - effectively waste. Energy use adding no value to society.
I don't think abusing us is a very nice way to take this argument either, you can do better!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by GTfour

[
Let's face it,the development of alternative sorts of energy will only truely take off when our fossil fuels are drained.
And even then,mankind's resourcefulness is so amazing that I don't worry about being short of energy anytime soon. If ever really...

Exactly, Fossil fuels will never be drained, even at x100 times daily use for 1000 years, and yes mans ability to work with or new technologies will be the key.

Man kind will be just fine.

The "sky is not falling" yeh Chicken Littles of the world.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

YES there is and why the current average global temp is 12* F lower then 100 years ago, and 15*F lower then 1000 years ago.

Do you have any link for that? Because that's contrary to the belief that is aknoledged everywhere (but I'm not saying, in any way, that this belief is right!!!).

And yes, I do know that in England, into the 1200s, there were still vyniards in there, which is almost impossible in this day and age (and weather!).

[Justin Moran]

This is moving away from the o/p and as such I dont want to go into another MMGW thread.

Have fun. Im going to see about some racing and racecars. (whilst we still have some!)

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by C9/89

This is moving away from the o/p and as such I dont want to go into another MMGW thread.

Have fun. Im going to see about some racing and racecars. (whilst we still have some!)

Unfortunately, there are those that have fixed opinions regarding alternate fuels and the future. I can only surmise that they believe that there is an infinite supply of cheap Oil, that is being hidden in a grand conspiracy. I suppose some believe that American's being dependent on countries in the Middle East for their oil supply is a good thing too. What, only $500 BILLION spent so far in IRAQ, hardly shows that dependence on an Oil suppy is a good economic move either does it?

Many solutions aren't perfect from the beginning, but without public awareness, public funding and research and a desire from corporations to fund research most importantly, we'll never find cleaner, and more economic solutions. I believe that this is the right step for Sportscars and will be looked upon in the future as a winning strategy.

Whether you believe in Global Warming, or Global pollution, or if there is a need for alt fuels or not, I think you can agree that searching for solutions that reduce our impact on the environment, and finding economical and practical solutions for energy, that increase domestic security and reduce dependence on foreign supplies are a bonus.

Sportscars are the perfect platform to display companies interest in alt power, and hopefully one of the solutions becomes economical and practical. With the capability to allow for different technologies, different engine setups, etc, etc.. well, what more could you ask for?

I recently heard of an engine being developed, that would give equal power to it's equivalent, at a fraction of the energy input. Hopefully this actually works as as well in a car, as it does on a Dyno....