Paying for TV Coverage

[HrRACING]

Originally Posted by mel tyres

Hey Hal my money would be on the formula Renault against one of your cars !!!!!!!!!!! joke.

Only if we were carrying some welshman I know as ballast!

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by HrRACING

David, if your talking about the argument between rallycross and circuit racing I want a resolution. I will challenge a Formula Renault round the rallycross circuit at croft in a stockhatch!

You're on, Hal.

I'll borrow a Formula Renault from somewhere and raise the suspension, borrow Dermot's engine and plonk that in it, and you can race in my old car.

You know, the one without the engine...


Fair point though, Bucko, I'm sure Bob can make his own decisions. I wasn't trying to tell him how to behave, in case it came across like that, I was just suggesting how I thought the situation might best be resolved.

I hope, for the sake of rallycross and everyone involved with the sport, that it all gets sorted out and everyone can go and play happily again.

[The Eye]

There is a similar discussion going on in Sweden. We have only 6 entry’s to the SRC. “They have got some more drivers now.. There will be 8 or 9 drivers now, says Per Eklund. The Entry fee is 20 000kr and on top there is the TV fee! We are already on our knees here!! We should get played for the entertaining we do say’s Per. That is how it was in the old days”.

[silver bullet]

Wow is that right 20,000kr, is that per meeting, or for the whole season.
20,000.00 Swedish kronor = 1,706.38 British pounds sterling.

Also reading the Irish media deal thread, their media surcharge ranges from 55.00 EUR (£43.69) to 125.00 EUR (£99.30) That also seems a bit expensive to me.

I think we here in the UK should consider ourselves lucky. For a couple of years, at some meetings we had to pay a TV surcharge of £10, £20 or £30 (depending on class) and now that has been taken up by a sponsor. Now we have two main championships with TV coverage, both of which come in at under £200 an entry and no TV surcharge.

Who knows we just need another Brian Kreisky to come along and restart the Havoc/Car Wars series and they might want to pay us.

That brings me on to another thought. We pay the money to the production company's to film us. Who then gets the money from the broadcasting company's when they air the programmes, the repeat fees and the extra when the footage shows up in various montages, DVD's etc. Basically who owns the broadcast rights?

[HoleInTheHedge]

Originally Posted by Bob Gooding

Can I say first of all that MSN did not explain fully the reasons for my not racing that weekend
Bob.

It's not surprising that yet again Mr Moriarty writes half a story. He seems to have a habbit of mis-representing people's comments, and writes for a story rather than the truth.

[Graz]

If it was me and I was being asked to pay TV money, I and any sponsors I might have would expect some coverage, no matter how low down the ranks I was. At the end of the day, this isn't F1 which is purely performance based. In the very least, do features on drivers not otherwise at the sharp end in the races. This is an issue that really should be discussed between drivers and committee and a vote taken. Whatever the outcome, this is what people should abide by whether they agree or not. If you don't agree, you don't have to race but the point should be to grow the sport, not force people out.

This seems to be a current hot potato topic in rallycross in a number of countries.

[Thundersports]

Ok so Bob gets more TV coverage how many peaple are going to stay tuned and watch an old and not a very quick car running round on its own? If you want more exposure then get a competitive car if the budget doesn't allow that drop down a class or two.
Rallycross needs QUALITY racing to fill its TV slots to keep the viewer entertained and interested in attending or even competing. A single car no matter who it is doesn't do that...........

[Rallycross Fan]

Thundersports, so this means you want to ban the Group B cars because they're too old?

[HrRACING]

Originally Posted by Rallycross Fan

Thundersports, so this means you want to ban the Group B cars because they're too old?

Where has he said that?????

RE the comment about the same old faces being on the Pembrey coverage - Well thats because they are the best drivers producing the best racing.

[Rallycross Fan]

Hr did not see any other drivers out of shot cant comment what they were doing could have been racing ???

[StockHatch782]

Originally Posted by Rallycross Fan

Hr did not see any other drivers out of shot cant comment what they were doing could have been racing ???

If we could just break down this statement into sensible parts...

"did not see any other drivers out of shot" - presumably there were too far off the pace to be in shot with the front-runners.

"cant comment what they were doing" - well presumably they were driving round the circuit in some kind of 'sporty' fashion.

"could have been racing" - most likely, but that doesn't, in itself, make compelling tv, does it? You watch the Olympics to see the fastest athletes in the world, not some others jogging in the background.

If they were faster, they'd be on the box, it's that simple. It's the same when I race, too. I had to crash into Vicki Butler-Henderson to get my face on the telly!

[chunder]

I can tell you now from experience writing for many different typres of media that mentioning sponsors is a no no for most editors, they hate it!!

Unless a team is something like HM Plant Honda or Repsol Honda it is very difficult to stop sponsors being dropped in words.

TV gets you guaranteed coverage, espeiclaly for grid shots when the cars are static.

For me there is no real reason why a person should quibble about paying a little more for coverage. Main reason being that how can the editors then edit them out of the footage, its impossible, and why should the other people in that race not get any!!

I doubt too much that the coverage that rallycross gets benefits hugely any of the people involved. It is a nce way to present your team and to try and get some funding but let's face it most people are sponsored by people they work for, or know from trade or business, or the company they work for.

there are very few (outside the very top men) who are heavily sponsored by a company that will benefit hugely from tv coverage.

The issue regarding the people at the front getting the most telly, is a no-brainer and anyone who complains about this is being a bit thick to be honest!!

Why on earth would ITV suddenly start following the race for 13th between Force India and Torro Rosso?? Unless it was a good race

I dont think anyone gets a raw deal from what I have seen, in fact the coverage I watched the otehr night was annopying coz they didnt follow the leaders who were very close

I dont watch racing to watch the front men, I like to see car control, talent, men overcoming machinery and good scrapping that can happen anywhere from front to back.

But sadly the media like winners and obviously the racde for the win, in rallycross more than most sports, forst past the post nearly always wins!

[HrRACING]

Put in another way.

For the last two years there has been ONE British driver in the WRC driving what is basically a works Ford.

Not only in comparison to the top 6 or so drivers, but also in comparison to the other Ford drivers - how much time has he got on the British WRC coverage...

Draw your own conclusions...

[M.Lowe]

Interesting thread this

You can see from Bob's point of view he wants to race in Rallycross and is aggreived by the fact that he dosnt feel he gets coverage like others do, but tv companies say they are there to film a race and the action is at the front to see who is winning.

But there is also action in the mid pack of a race and as a fan and sometime service crew in rallycross I enjoy the mid pack racing as much as those racers are fighting like hell to get up as much as they can in front.

Its a catch 22 situation where as you want to race, you pay your entry but to be on tv you must pay which is the way things are going.

In rallying on the BRC you pay to be on tv and if you dont you dont get coverage and this is the hard thing in circuit racing as its harder to block out a driver or drivers that dont want to pay to be on tv and this is where the championship has you by the short n curlies.

Having read what was said on Bob's site there is clearly an issue with the BRDA in not wanting other drivers to contest other championships in fear of them going elsewhere, but should you be made to look bad just because you want to race in a sport you love be it whatever rallycross championship there is around?

TV is an excellent thing for rallycross as it highlights the sport but the *****ing behind the scenes will just put the nail in the coffin and people will walk away and do something else, and this is a bad thing when the sport is getting more and more popular.

Its ok for some to come on here and have a go at Bob when they dont know the full facts or go on hearsay and he now has to defend himself when the MN article did not clearly state what went on and if MN did decide to carry this on in next weeks paper no doubt the powers that be in the sport would have a no comment on it as they dont discuss issues outside their meetings.

This has got to be a a hard decision for Bob as I see it if he wants to race he will end up having to pay the TV money or he will be asked or told to not continue in the MSA BRDA championship

Regarding tv companies covering the sport the drivers pay then surely the channels pay the companies for the useage of the coverage where the adverts on the channelswill help pay the monies spent, but It would be interesting to see how much profit the film companies get (and I know they are running a business) from not only the above, but from dvd sales and sales to other channels abroad if they have any

Good luck Bob in whatever your decision is for the future

[chunder]

Erm in response to your question HR

Matt got a whole programmes about him when Dave previewed teh WRC season??

I am sure Stobart would be more than happy with a hour of coverage pretty much!

The argument about not getting coverage is a no brainer, it really is. As I said before do you ever see the guys at the back in ERC getting coverage, no, do you see much of the privateers in BTCC, no. be reasonable please no tv editor is going to cver people who are not at the front unless there is an angle

That is how tv, papers, whatever work. And by the way, it's why you watch it and buy them!!

[fullcircle]

[QUOTE=M.Lowe]Interesting thread this

Having read what was said on Bob's site there is clearly an issue with the BRDA in not wanting other drivers to contest other championships in fear of them going elsewhere, but should you be made to look bad just because you want to race in a sport you love be it whatever rallycross championship there is around?

This is the first sensible commentary on this topic for a few days now. If you read the statement on Bob's website its clearly not all just about the amount of coverage Bob gets, its the tone in which the BRDA have tackled the issue. Bob goes racing for the love of it regardless of which championship he is racing in. He has clearly worked hard behind the scenes but then gets kicked in the teeth by certain people from the BRDA when he tries to encourage progress in the sport he loves!

[Minicross424]

You will find that a new car is on the way and is being readyed as we speak

[mig]

Got to be honest Bob gets treated better when he competes in a sprint now that is really bad for rallycross.Go circuit racing Bob at least carol wont get covered in mud anymore.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by Rallycross Fan

Thundersports, so this means you want to ban the Group B cars because they're too old?

Certainly not lets not go up the Group B car debate.
In relation to the current thread however yes there old but they are at the sharp end and are spectacular to watch, the car/driver we are debating isn't either of these.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by fullcircle

Having read what was said on Bob's site there is clearly an issue with the BRDA in not wanting other drivers to contest other championships in fear of them going elsewhere, but should you be made to look bad just because you want to race in a sport you love be it whatever rallycross championship there is around?

This is the first sensible commentary on this topic for a few days now.
If you read the statement on Bob's website its clearly not all just about the amount of coverage Bob gets, its the tone in which the BRDA have tackled the issue.

Eh, no. Just because you agree with someone's comments and not others doesn't make it any more or less sensible. That's the beauty of people being able to voice oppinions...

I read the statement (which is from Bob's perspective only - I haven't seen a statement from the BRDA) and the issue regardless about the BRDA's treatment arose because of the fees - Bob didn't pay his last year. Bob clearly has an issue with this hence the problem.

If Bob was at the sharp end and getting lots of coverage, I don't think this issue would be associated with Bob but someone else would have an issue. Maybe Bob was the only person courageous enough to stand up against what he feels is wrong.

Would you be/are you happy to pay an inflated entry fee that you get nothing extra from? And don't give me this 'good of the sport' nonsense - the tv deals have done little or nothing for rallycross. What rallycross in Ireland and UK realy needs is the ERC to come back. This would raise interest and make tv deals more relevant then. Until then, focus on getting people into the sport and not pricing them out of it.

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by Graz

Eh, no. Just because you agree with someone's comments and not others doesn't make it any more or less sensible. That's the beauty of people being able to voice oppinions...

Originally Posted by Graz

I read the statement (which is from Bob's perspective only - I haven't seen a statement from the BRDA) and the issue regardless about the BRDA's treatment arose because of the fees - Bob didn't pay his last year. Bob clearly has an issue with this hence the problem.

What are we talking about here, £60. According to Bob's website "I had deducted the levy from entries after the Knockhill round" That would be Lydden & Croft at £30 each. That was in 2007, we are now in 2008 and the levy has gone, come on BRDA you could have drawn a line under this and let it lie. It is a whole lot of bad publicity for very little money.

Originally Posted by Graz

If Bob was at the sharp end and getting lots of coverage, I don't think this issue would be associated with Bob but someone else would have an issue. Maybe Bob was the only person courageous enough to stand up against what he feels is wrong.

That's life. The top competitors always get more coverage than the also rans. Whoever is at the back of the pack has to learn to live with it.

Originally Posted by Graz

Would you be/are you happy to pay an inflated entry fee that you get nothing extra from? And don't give me this 'good of the sport' nonsense - the tv deals have done little or nothing for rallycross. What rallycross in Ireland and UK realy needs is the ERC to come back. This would raise interest and make tv deals more relevant then.

I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with you here. I've been amazed how many people have come up to me in the last year or two and said that they had seen the rallycross on the TV, and then asked when the next meeting was on at Croft. TV coverage does get people through the gates. I do however agree that we need the ERC back, that would move things onto a whole new level, and get the new fans completely hooked

Originally Posted by Graz

focus on getting people into the sport and not pricing them out of it.

I'll always agree with this statement, and I do think if the Irish media deal is brought in at the costs stated, it will force people away from the sport.

[sihorton]

I was watching BTCC yesterday and Rallycross certainly got a lot of mentioning, especially in race 3 when a certain young Mr Jordan was running in a strong 2nd place (gutted for him with the retirement).

I too get a lot of people comment when i'm seen on TV. I would say that if the drivers use the media correctly, it can be a great too for helping raise there profile in the sport they choose, not just rallycross.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

What are we talking about here, £60. According to Bob's website "I had deducted the levy from entries after the Knockhill round" That would be Lydden & Croft at £30 each. That was in 2007, we are now in 2008 and the levy has gone, come on BRDA you could have drawn a line under this and let it lie. It is a whole lot of bad publicity for very little money.

That's life. The top competitors always get more coverage than the also rans. Whoever is at the back of the pack has to learn to live with it.


I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with you here. I've been amazed how many people have come up to me in the last year or two and said that they had seen the rallycross on the TV, and then asked when the next meeting was on at Croft. TV coverage does get people through the gates. I do however agree that we need the ERC back, that would move things onto a whole new level, and get the new fans completely hooked

I'll always agree with this statement, and I do think if the Irish media deal is brought in at the costs stated, it will force people away from the sport.

Good answer mate

[Rallycross Fan]

Hi Mal still waiting for the facts or don/t you know any ?????????????????

[leonidas]

Once again British rallycross shoots itself in the foot... looking at the correspondence the BRDA could have resolved the matter in a more professional way. You can't blame a competitor for 'going public' if offensive letters are banged off like this.

It seems that this is less about the money and more about the attitude of an organisation to competitors. I am not aware that the MSA requires licence holders to declare an oath of allegiance to organising clubs or refrain from criticising their policy on specific subjects. If it did half the people on this board would be banned!