Has the axe fallen in the right places?

[PenelopePitstop]

The MGCC has done a lot of work into standardising the regs of there variuos championships, so the Metros (who had a fairly decent size gris at Castle Combe on Saturday) and Cockshot cars will have somewhere to race. It is a shame that such an historic & social championship as the Cockshot, that race at circuts that have smaller grids by virtue of there location is going to disappear, maybe it will return as a challenge.

[Tim Falce]

I wasn't aware that the JEC Saloons had even been a championship for the past few years. They lost their permit about 3 or 4 years ago and were running as a championship, unless they had been reinstated recently.

[Al Weyman]

750MC roadsports case cannot have been helped by the ruinaway wins of the Noble - who wants to compete when you have no chance?!

Ah Ha I see someone is now agreeing with me that yes, one car in a championship running away with it can effect grids badly, thank you!

[rbs]

Saxmax, Ginetta Jnr and T Cars are all catering for the same group of competitors and all with small grids. Saxmax would be the cheapest to compete in so the axe should have fallen on the other two. This would have encouraged more competitors into one championship with a good grid.

[Dan Friel]

Roadsports – loads of possible cars, probably just dwindled in the face of opposition / other series to race the cars in. Probably not helped by the cars being expensive to run.

It amazes me how poorly managed some series are. Just check out some of the websites (or lack of in certain instances), and how outdated some of them are. There’s nothing worse than looking at something that is 6 months out of date. Hardly inspiring for a potential newcomer.. We all whinge about how series disappeared, but I think the way that we promote motorsport should really try to struggle into the 21st century (that is of course a terrible generalisation!).

[Truckosaurus]

Have the former Fiat runners switched into the more generic "auto italia" (or whatever it is called) series with the Alfas?

I expect Ginetta Jnrs are safe due to the popularity of the main G20 series.

[Ian Sowman]

Saxmax has had 20-plus grids all season - hardly small. And as I have already noted, you can realistically double that for next year.

Ginetta Juniors is now hitting the high teens, so I think that there IS space for two championships.

One of the problems with Roadsports is the high number of potential rivals. Tasmins and MR2s started out with Roadsports and then drifted away. Some of the older cars have moved over to the HSCC series. And so on and so on...

[Ian Sowman]

Auto Italia doesn't exist now - that got hived up into Euro Saloons, which often does quite nicely (occasionally quite poorly too, but it is getting generally better).

Alfas still race in their own standalone series.

Performance-wise, Fiats sit quite nicely with Super Mighty Minis and Porsche 924s.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

Your right Rob, BTCC has had some awful grids over the last few years but unfortunately unlike SCSA there seems to be a fair bit of money around from manufactures who like the throwing money away treating guests etc and having a good time-the grid sizes are probably ignored by those who turn-up just to get pi****d and nothing more.

Call me an old cynic but doesn't the MSA giving a permit to a series that has been rather lame in recent years have anything to do with the boss of it and the MSA being the same person.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Dan Friel

It amazes me how poorly managed some series are. Just check out some of the websites (or lack of in certain instances), and how outdated some of them are. There’s nothing worse than looking at something that is 6 months out of date. Hardly inspiring for a potential newcomer.. We all whinge about how series disappeared, but I think the way that we promote motorsport should really try to struggle into the 21st century (that is of course a terrible generalisation!).

I kept the Mod Prod site up to date almost religously.

Didn't help one jot!

[Al Weyman]

And they were lucky to have someone to do it Dennis what about those that don't? Pay an IT man then drivers complain because they asked to pay something to register or join a club you just cannot win.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

And they were lucky to have someone to do it Dennis what about those that don't? Pay an IT man then drivers complain because they asked to pay something to register or join a club you just cannot win.

And us IT people aren't cheap, got to pay for our racing somehow!

[Dan Friel]

Like I said in my original, sorry for the generalisation (I didn't mean to offend) . With regards to Mod Prods I think the success of other series probably hit it very hard, and it's one of those series where there's an obvious merge with another championship. So good for everybody I would have thought?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I wasn't aware that the JEC Saloons had even been a championship for the past few years. They lost their permit about 3 or 4 years ago and were running as a championship, unless they had been reinstated recently.

Just looked at the result sheets and last year they were a challenge and this year a championship. So next year a challenge again although not sure why as they seem to get very full grids..

[JimW]

Not really going to argue about the detail but well done the MSA for actually having the guts to try and deal with this. The open approach is particularly welcome and I'm sorry that the BARC are quoted as opposing that aspect.

My rule of thumb would be that unless a "championship" (or series) can regularly field a grid which is more than 1/2 full in its second and subsequent year, it is then a candidate for the chop.

At any given race meeting, any grid which is less than 1/2 full is a candidate for amalgamation if there is a suitable other race. (And my definition of "suitable" is pretty wide. )

Tough approach, but do we want to have racing or track days with timing? (Yes, I know there are always special circumstances and these might be taken into account in rare cases. )

Regards

Jim

[Mike Kelly 1]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Interestingly, SAXMAX - a T-Car rival if you like - is expecting to field two full grids throughout next season.

You'll probably find that the Saxmax series is geting better grids because a. its a lot cheaper than T-cars and b. the Saxo is a typical boy racer car so it'll have a lot of street cred with the youngsters.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by JimW

My rule of thumb would be that unless a "championship" (or series) can regularly field a grid which is more than 1/2 full in its second and subsequent year, it is then a candidate for the chop.

At any given race meeting, any grid which is less than 1/2 full is a candidate for amalgamation if there is a suitable other race.

The problem with such a viewpoint is that the MSA are unable (or unwilling) to place any sanction on a competition being run as a series, cup or somesuch. Therefore such an idea would only work for championships, which is a bit of a pity in my view given that such an idea would help create fuller grids.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly 1

the Saxo is a typical boy racer car so it'll have a lot of street cred with the youngsters.

That is not a good point!

[Peter Mallett]

Slightly off topic but not totally unrelated.

I'm in no position to compete for a championship. (Truth is I can't really be arsed even if I could be in that position).

Anyway, there are loads of series around where you get a cup for winning (overall or class) but no championship at the end of the year. I like it becuse being recognised for a race is better than slogging around for a championship. At least at club level.

[redshoes]

Maybe the answer for Scottish Legends is to stick to their strengths and race solely at Knockhill. The Oulton and Anglesey meeting were also UK championship rounds so those few who are prepared to make the trip could enter that as a one-off. Seems like a lot of series have a similar problem with one or two circuits drawing a poor grid and dragging the averages down.

Combined Metro-Fiat series sounds good but I doubt it would happen given that the existing series are run by different clubs. I wonder how many of those could move to one of the 'open' saloon series (TRC/LMA/etc) but are put off by the thought of sharing track space with much larger engined cars.

As for SCSA, I'm surprised it ever lasted this long.

[Wedgie]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I do disagree on the issue of the MINIs on the grounds that it is a regional championship; it is the major series in Scotland attractive to young drivers; and despite the smallish grids it does, as I say, provide better racing than any other championship that I have seen this year. And as someone who follows FF1600 and commentates for 750MC that is saying something...

Well, as a regular Knockhill marshal I have to say I hate the Minis. Until the powers that be gave them a very stern talking too recently, they regularly spent about half of each lap off the black stuff. If you are looking for the next crop of BTCC competitors, with a few exceptions, their driving standards are about right.

Wedgie.

[goforit500]

Someone mentioned the Mid Engined Sportscar Series...

It has died at it's own hand and I can honestly say that sometimes it is true that what goes round, comes round !!

Those of you that know me know why I'm not crying about it's demise...

For those that don't, try the following for insanity and vested interest :

Build a car that is absolutlely on the button with the regulations (Slightly under the power to weight ratio)

In the interest of honest competition, enter it in the motorsport class rather than the road going clas (Even tho it's taxed, tested and on the road)

Not get a pole position

Not get a fastest lap (may have done in one race)

Win one out of three races (When the series had formally advised that the power to weight should be at the crank rather than the wheels - Cue some weight loss...)

GET A 200KG PENALTY FOR YOUR TROUBLE BECAUASE SOMEONE IS UPSET THAT THE NEWCOMER WON !!!!!!!!!

AND NO - IT ISN'T ME.....!!

[Mike Kelly 1]

Originally Posted by The STIG

That is not a good point!

Read the rest of the reply then!!!!!

[Thundersports]

I've had the misfortune to see "T-cars!" twice now and I have to say what a load of slow, boring and small gridded crap I have ever seen, it is even more boring than Mr Ego Hines Zip Formula! The one and only reason for BTCC not getting a warning is Mr Gow is running it...........corrupt? Answers here!

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by goforit500

Someone mentioned the Mid Engined Sportscar Series...

It has died at it's own hand and I can honestly say that sometimes it is true that what goes round, comes round !!

Those of you that know me know why I'm not crying about it's demise...

For those that don't, try the following for insanity and vested interest :

Build a car that is absolutlely on the button with the regulations (Slightly under the power to weight ratio)

In the interest of honest competition, enter it in the motorsport class rather than the road going clas (Even tho it's taxed, tested and on the road)

Not get a pole position

Not get a fastest lap (may have done in one race)

Win one out of three races (When the series had formally advised that the power to weight should be at the crank rather than the wheels - Cue some weight loss...)

GET A 200KG PENALTY FOR YOUR TROUBLE BECAUASE SOMEONE IS UPSET THAT THE NEWCOMER WON !!!!!!!!!

AND NO - IT ISN'T ME.....!!

Shame about this series. I was thinking of trying to enter my mid engined kit car but it all seemed a bit 'clique' to me. The LMA Euro Saloons and all the local sports and saloons seem far friendlier.