Knobbly Lister-Jaguar Returns to Production

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by adam46

So they are looking to reproduce many of the Lister cars? I'm hoping for the Storm!

You could be lucky as Laurence Pearce has been retained as a consultant

The Storm was perfectly in keeping with the post-war ethos of British motor sport, plucky little Brit constructor takes on and beats the world. Just 50 years later! It's a shame there wasn't the money/inclination to develop a dynasty.

[zefarelly]

Quite agree . . . unfortunately most historic grids seem to gravitate toward one or two competitive marque. one make I've always found dull.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes, I'm not entirely certain that the average club meeting ran full grids of what were then, considered exotica on a regular basis. In fact the thought of a grid full of Nobbly Listers and D Types is a bit of a turn off for me. I enjoy seeing them mixing with other cars of the period and so a varied grid is much more interesting.

[Al Weyman]

And the reason for this as I have said on the Spa modification thread is simply because certain cars are blessed with certain features that were fitted or homologated in the day which is why I suggest that the FIA allow other vehicles thta at the moment are non competitive specific upgrades to level the playing field. This is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the regulations for Modified Production Saloons after a couple of frustrating seasons in the tighter Road Saloons that also favoured certain makes like the Golf GTI. It worked as history shows!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by James Murray

Certain amount of irony in that the "FIA Historic World Sports Car Championship" is 95% replicas built within the last 5 years.

Perhaps it is the:
Fakes In Action Historic World Sports Car Championship

[Nick JM]

So what's the difference between, an original and a "modern" Lister?
These cars were built very many years ago and the majority have been crashed at some point. This means that they have been comprehensively rebuilt using modern technology, available at that time.

So what constitutes "original"?

I have sympathy with both sides on this (the Motorsport article, as someone has said on this post earlier, is very informative). On the one hand you have the owner who has spent a small fortune on an "original car" (which has been restored) and on the other hand you have another owner who has spent a small fortune on a car which may have comprised only a chassis (or part of one) before being built up using "remanufactured" or restored parts.

So what's the difference? Only that one car may have period photos, but both have been rebuilt, probably many times, using whatever remanufacturing process is available at the time.

The article in Motorsport does go to some lengths to explain that the new owners will "sanction" some cars as being original; but if you do not come forward and 'fess up to owning a "non original" then you run the risk of being an "unacknowledged".

Harsh - maybe - but if you had invested a significant amount of money in resurrecting a company wouldn't you want to protect your investment?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

So what constitutes "original"?

Provenance - the continuous line of established recorded history that can take us back to in period. The George Washington's axe principle. And yes, there are flaws when a body has been parted from chassis and both reappear as separate cars both claiming the history, but it's the nearest I can get.

[JonWolfe]

On a slightly different angle I noticed in Motor Sport a company advertising "recreations"; these cars (by their own description) are replicas but bear period number plates and claim to have period identity as historic vehicles...surely that's not only legally challenging but also very misleading to Joe Public...surely all new vehicles (including replicas) need to have a modern V5C and pay commensurate road fund licence or am I mistaken?

[john ruston]

It is usual to get hold of an old brown log book and use that to register the cars.

Its all nonsense as there are enough 50's Listers original and copies to quench the need of the owners.

You can use them in the Woodcote but what else?

[Peter Mallett]

I find it all a bit cynical frankly. Why bother resurrecting an old design? Don't see anything altruistic about this, just a means to make a profit. Was going to suggest it may be from gullible punters but I'm not so sure. Once these get into the system there's going to be a difficulty weeding them out from the originals.

[GORDON STREETER]

Well I know one person that won't be remortgaging their house to buy one !!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Well I know one person that won't be remortgaging their house to buy one !!

You'd just pay cash wouldn't you Gordon.

[Clive Brown]

....out of your winter heating allowance.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

....out of your winter heating allowance.

But I gave that to Al as I felt sorry for him !

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

You'd just pay cash wouldn't you Gordon.

But that means I'd have to bring a few sackfuls back from Spain !

[john ruston]

Title of the Thread is misleading.

Copies of Knobbly Listers now being made availble .

More factual

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed. However, I'll leave it to John to make any edits.

[zefarelly]

There are thousands of copies of old racing cars out there already . . . they've flooded the market and the grids, at least Lister are being open about it.

[Peter Mallett]

Well, Ford, Lola, etc. plus the various replicas from GTD and others are generally held to be copies or replicas and not originals. As I understand it these Listers are being touted as originals. Or am I missing something?

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well, Ford, Lola, etc. plus the various replicas from GTD and others are generally held to be copies or replicas and not originals. As I understand it these Listers are being touted as originals. Or am I missing something?

They are genuine original 2013 cars, Peter. Use you loaf.

[midgetman]

What is the rule about cars racing? Must they be "made before 19XX" or "of a style and specification made before 19XX"?

[Peter Mallett]

I would think the former, because as I posted previously, the latter is probably unachievable.

[midgetman]

In which case, "tool room copies", "replicas" or "continuation models" can't race because they weren't built pre 19XX.

Simples.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm, I think that was my point?

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

In which case, "tool room copies", "replicas" or "continuation models" can't race because they weren't built pre 19XX.

Simples.

Wouldn't that rule out quite a few cars that already race with the Masters?

[zefarelly]

its not just expensive stuff, a vast majority of historic race cars full stop have been built in the last 5-10 years.