MSUK consultation - action required by end of this month

[Plantagenet]

Originally Posted by rbs

My guess is that MSUK are coming under pressure from the clubs that are losing out to CSCC on entries, such as HSCC who has lost seval to CSCC meetings. MSUK must be going to lose out on licence fees if the series racers give up and stop racing.

I don't know RBS. Not many cars in CSCC would be eligible for HSCC. CSCC don't run any single-seaters (I don't think) and there is only really overlap with the tin-tops (60s/70s). Might be the case for other series though.

I'm with JimW - some sort of context and argument for the changes would be helpful and the fact that these have been sprung on us by MSUK without this - and with a very short consultation time over the holiday season - doesn't reflect well on them IMO.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by JimW

They are proposing what they feel is right for the sport. Engage with them on that basis.

But on what basis can they think that is right for the sport?

[midgetman]

That's why the MSUK should be open and tell us.

Most karting that counts (for hobby racers) these days is run outside of MSUK. They're trying to grab it back but not succeeding. It won't be long before the first car race is run without their sanction. (If you think about it, the whole of the oval scene ignores MSUK and operates perfectly happily) Am I correct in thinking some of the historic races in Europe aren't an FIA event?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[coppice]

Having read the proposal I'm at a loss to understand its rationale- it seems little more than semantics . What on earth does it have to do with MSUK what a club elects to call its races ?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by coppice

Having read the proposal I'm at a loss to understand its rationale- it seems little more than semantics . What on earth does it have to do with MSUK what a club elects to call its races ?

The cost of their permit?

[flatlandsman]

As others have said, if you can run away from them, I would presume that is not easy with insurance etc on UK tracks however, I would guess the MSU provide some cover?

Others are right, the short oval scene and stuff like autograss run perfectly well without all this, they have accidents, they have incident, the sports are still in fine health so it cant be that necessary.

[Paul D]

This whole thing does stink of simple money-making on the part of MSUK.

One of the reasons given for the changes is that many drivers don't really know if they're racing in a series or a championship. Really? Give me a break!

As I pointed out to the MSUK in my sternly worded response, there's a simple trick for anyone unsure: if, after your first race, no one is awarded any points and there's no points table, then you're in a series. Not rocket science is it?

It appears to me that this whole proposal has been dreamt up by someone within MSUK who knows sweet f*** all about club racing and has had the genius notion to solve a problem that, actually, only exists in his tiny mind!

And the powers that be within MSUK have given him a big pat on the back and a promotion, because they can also now screw more money out of us to enter championships when it becomes almost impossible to run any kind of meaningful series'.

Yet another stroke of genius from MSUK which will drive yet more club racers to decide enough is enough, hang up their helmets and stop giving them their ridiculous fees every year. MSUK really need to be careful what they wish for because, without club racers the clubs/promoters don't survive, and without clubs & promoters, the venues don't survive, and without venues there is no racing, and with no racing there's no more MSUK!

Can someone who knows about such things explain to me why we need MSUK at all? Over the years, it seems that all they've done for the club racer is take ever more control, impose ever more unnecessary regulation and slowly but surely erode away our freedom to compete where & when we would like - whilst at the same time relieving us of ever increasing sums of money and giving back ever decreasing benefits to boot.

In the past, I think people have said that one of the problems with going it alone is getting the venues on-side, but from what I've heard of this latest proposal, the venues aren't happy about it either, so maybe this is an opportunity for clubs to pursue the possibility of dumping MSUK altogether?

Of course, MSUK would like us all to believe that it's not possible to operate without them, that they have some God-given right to govern our sport. But I don't see it that way - I see them as self-appointed thought-police who just want us all to keep paying our dues and not make trouble.

Well, there's only so much most of us will take...

[flatlandsman]

I do not know enough about this to know f the venues have to be onside with the sports governing body,I would expect so to banish this very issue

I do not think there are any race circuits that run car racing away from the MSUK that are not short oval venues or things like motocross enduro type locations.

IN fact I do not think any tracks anywhere in the UK run organised circuit racing, you can sprint etc on airfields all over the UK but you cannot race, which leads me to believe you clearly can NOT do so without MSUK say so.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I am somewhat confused. What has the Sport 80 Motorsport Management System have to do with clubs giving awards for series races rather than championships?

I have seen no notifications from HSCC, HRDC, CSCC or other clubs.

I received notice from HRDC, CSCC and Motor Racing Legends. I have responded using the text provided by HRDC.

Roger Wills doesn't post here very often (if at all these days) but he is on the MSUK board. If I get the chance I'll try to chat to him next weekend and see what the background is if he can tell me.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

IN fact I do not think any tracks anywhere in the UK run organised circuit racing, you can sprint etc on airfields all over the UK but you cannot race, which leads me to believe you clearly can NOT do so without MSUK say so.

There is no reason that a circuit can't hold non MSUK racing and indeed Lydden does have some events (sometime sharing a meeting with MSUK racing). In addition, several circuits hold rounds of the non-MSUK Javelin Sprint Series. Non-MSUK kart racing is also relatively common, I believe

The key issue with any Motorsport event is that there needs to be appropriate safety regulations, insurance, rescue facilities and scrutineering. To date, it's generally been easier to do this under the banner of MSUK. However, there is no legal monopoly.

[midgetman]

Correct. I'm just on the way back from a kart race weekend of over 200 drivers with not a single blue armband or blazer in sight. All "unlicenced" at a circuit that hosts MSUK racing too.

To the poster who said circuits would go under if drivers were driven out of the sport, I'm sure racing nets them much less profit than track/corporate days anyway so it may be a relief!

It just requires the will to change. An organiser would probably need to hook up with the IOPD to be able to exempt their drivers from the provisions of the Road Traffic Act but it's all possible.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Paul D]

Max - 'twas I who said the circuits wouldn't survive without us. I appreciate that's not necessarily the case, but was just making a point.

Nevertheless, I'd be very surprised if the circuit owners could care less about hosting race meetings. Yes, maybe they do make more from corporate and track-days, but I suspect most of them would still like to have a varied portfolio of events, including race meetings. Race meetings, especially those that attract significant machinery, give them kudos surely? They can't get that from loads of wannabes thrashing round in, often, pretty ordinary cars. They also don't get it from a load of blokes who normally work in an office turning up for a jolly to potter round in whatever.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect most of them would not want to lose racing events at a wholesale level.

[JimW]

Useful BRSCC response at: https://www.facebook.com/BRSCCHQ/pos...9f33g8FVYFN47l

[Mike Harte]

I know it's 55 years or so ago, but I participated regularly in the Redex Championship for 4 or 5 years. Yet in all those years, I cannot recall that there was an end of season social gathering to award the class and overall winners. In fact, I'm pretty certain that we only received pots for our results on the day and that there were never overall championship trophies.

My abiding memory is of a once only year end special that was held at Brands. They ran two qualifying heats followed by a final for the top runners in each class in each heat. I actually won my heat, but was unable to race in the final as the head gasket blew as I crossed the finishing line, but was unable to replace said gasket in time for the final.

No surprise, Gerry Marshall easily won the final; however, I cannot recall Gerry being given a pot for that, either. Mind you, neither Gerry nor I can remember much about what happened after the race as we emptied the Paddock Bar of their stocks of whisky! And this was my head the next morning!


My point is, what difference is there anyway? Apart from more more for UK Motorsport?

[Lancsbreaker]

Had a message from CSCC that MSUK appear to have seen sense:

[Mike Harte]

Begs the question; what were the other 7 proposals? And do any of them affect anyone on here?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Begs the question; what were the other 7 proposals? And do any of them affect anyone on here?

You can see all the "consultations" here: https://www.motorsportuk.org/the-spo...ation-archive/


But briefly they concern rules about:


Driving more than 1 vehicle in a race,
Use of Yellow signal panels as well as flags for SC purposes
Introduction of a National (open) championship status and applying FIA rules
Introduction of Full Course Yellow procedures (if Race Control can communicate with drivers)
Tidying of penalties for track limit offences, including differences for races over 45 minutes
Tidying of Live Snatch rules


None of them too controversial, I don't think....

[Peter H]

Well done to everyone who contributed to this outcome. We must remain vigilant for future unnecessary incursions on our chosen sport. I guess it shows that at least the MS UK responded to the strong push back those affected gave (as they did to their initial proposals on track limit penalties), but it does remain a cause for concern that they ever found themselves in this position.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

You can see all the "consultations" here: https://www.motorsportuk.org/the-spo...ation-archive/


But briefly they concern rules about:


Driving more than 1 vehicle in a race,
Use of Yellow signal panels as well as flags for SC purposes
Introduction of a National (open) championship status and applying FIA rules
Introduction of Full Course Yellow procedures (if Race Control can communicate with drivers)
Tidying of penalties for track limit offences, including differences for races over 45 minutes
Tidying of Live Snatch rules


None of them too controversial, I don't think....

I am not sure, Richard. The way I understood CSCC comms on the issue was that there were still 7 proposals within the August consultation that MSUK were going to push ahead with, ie the MSUK have accepted the concerns over “Series calendars” but were still going carry in with the other elements. I can’t remember what they all were now, but wasn’t it to do with awards, foreign rounds, naming of the series, etc etc.
I know that CSCC remain concerned.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by andy97

I am not sure, Richard. The way I understood CSCC comms on the issue was that there were still 7 proposals within the August consultation that MSUK were going to push ahead with, ie the MSUK have accepted the concerns over “Series calendars” but were still going carry in with the other elements. I can’t remember what they all were now, but wasn’t it to do with awards, foreign rounds, naming of the series, etc etc.
I know that CSCC remain concerned.

I'd read it that MSUK had withdrawn the proposals re Series v Championship, and also the proposals re GPS etc equipment (for further consideration) although CSCC hadn't been as concerned about the latter as there was the proviso for Clubs to allow them in their regs. They weren't over-concerned about the rest, although did (as did we all) object to the timescales.