Brabham BT38 - Page 2

allenbrown · 19 Feb 2005, 20:24 (Ref:1543489)

I have a little more on this Osprey business. The two people who built the Osprey, Jack Finucan and Dan Hartill, bought the "ex-Hill Formula 2 Brabham BT34[sic]" from Chuck Dietrich along with some Lola T294 bodywork and a pair of FVCs. Jack recalls that Dietrich was importing quite a bit of stuff from Europe.

It would have been pretty old by this time. Any of this helpful? From reading the threads, it appears more likely to be a BT38 than a BT36.

Allen

allenbrown · 21 Feb 2005, 16:44 (Ref:1543490)

I checked with Jack whether he really meant Chuck or could it have been Dean. Turns out it was Dean.

Anyone aware of Dean Dietrich having a F2 Brabham? Chris?

stuartscott · 25 Feb 2005, 21:22 (Ref:1543491)

Does anyone know anything about Ulf Svensson and where any of his ex F3 cars are now? I used to follow him and Team Mum for Men in the 70s.

sttp199 · 4 Mar 2005, 15:38 (Ref:1543492)

Terry Allard of Denver, CO now owns BT38-12 which came from S Africa several years ago. I Own BT38-16 which was in fact David Morgan's ex F2 car. This car is also in Denver. I also own BT38B-18 which was an FB car originally sold in the USA. I also found a BT38 several years ago with no BT number which was fitted with a Super Vee engine and used for autocrossing. Steve Petersen Sedalia, CO

Chris Townsend · 4 Mar 2005, 15:49 (Ref:1543493)

Steve

do you have any history connected to your 38B-18? I'm presuming from this designation that the B series had a separate numbering to the F2 cars.
For this Atlantic historian 38Bs are probably even more problematic than BT40s. Very few seem to have survived and they are mixed up with F2 cars sold for Atlantic after a season or two in Europe

Thanks
Chris

sttp199 · 4 Mar 2005, 20:39 (Ref:1543494)

Chris, I have log books from new. The car was driven in SCCA formula B initially. I'd assumed the B designation was for US Formula B. As an aside there is another BT38B car in Denver as well as a F3 BT38. In the chain of ownership on my BT38B lies entries for Steve Fossett, the fellow who just flew a plane nonstop around the earth.

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Mar 2005, 23:14 (Ref:1543495)

Robert Willis won the MidAm Formula Atlantic Championship in 1980 in a BT38. No idea on the chassis but I throw this in to the melting pot only because its in the MidAm record books incorrectly as a BT36.

Steve Wilkinson · 5 Apr 2005, 13:32 (Ref:1543496)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

The question is which if any of the above ended up with...
a) John Hart in 1977 fitted with a 1.6 BDA ?
b) Paul Edwards also in 1977 fitted with a 1.8 BDE (Edwards also ran the car in 1978) ?

Just hit upon the advert for the Brabham BT38 which Paul Edwards ran. In the ad the car is described as being "the ex-Tony Griffiths chassis".

Can anyone point me the chassis number now the previous owner has been identified?

Steve Wilkinson · 25 Apr 2005, 11:11 (Ref:1543497)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Just hit upon the advert for the Brabham BT38 which Paul Edwards ran. In the ad the car is described as being "the ex-Tony Griffiths chassis".

Can anyone point me the chassis number now the previous owner has been identified?

Thanks to Richard PAge for coming up with the goods!

The Paul Edwards BT38 was Chassis number 17.

allenbrown · 25 Apr 2005, 12:45 (Ref:1543498)

I can add another link to BT38/17. In Mason's hillclimb history (p274) it refers to Griffiths "deciding on a limited season with a 1.8 Brabham Ford BT38 which John Hinley had campaigned" for 1976.

Neither Padgett (in 1973) or Hinley (presumably in 1975) get a mention in Mason so I can't say who had the BT38 in 1974.

Mentioned in BT38s in 1974 are ADO in the ex-Shardlow BT38/28 and Tommy Reid's "Brabham-Vega BT38/40". Reid had run a BT38-Vega at Craigantlet in 1972 (p242) - do we know which car this was?

Allen

allenbrown · 25 Apr 2005, 12:52 (Ref:1543499)

I've just noticed that there's no mention here of Kim Mather's Brabham BT38 in 1974. Another mystery?

Doug Hart · 26 Apr 2005, 19:04 (Ref:1543500)

Hey there..

My father is John Hart (still going) and when I was little we ran a 38 on the hills, it did have a 1.6 FVA in it.. the car was modified and ran Falcon (i think) nose cone and eventually it was modified heavily to go quicker up the hills.. My brother also drove it.. It was destroyed in a crash at Shelsey Walsh, which newarly destroyed my brother !!! It was then rebuilt around a BT40 tub .. which was much better than the BT38 I was told ..

I will try and find out the chassis number or where it came from.. I think the first Anson F3 car was also a BT38 based car.. not 100% sure .. My father still owns the first ground up Anson.. and very nice too !!

I may be able to post some pictures if I can work that out !!!

Steve Wilkinson · 27 Apr 2005, 09:31 (Ref:1543501)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hart

Hey there..

My father is John Hart (still going) and when I was little we ran a 38 on the hills, it did have a 1.6 FVA in it.. the car was modified and ran Falcon (i think) nose cone and eventually it was modified heavily to go quicker up the hills.. My brother also drove it.. It was destroyed in a crash at Shelsey Walsh, which newarly destroyed my brother !!! It was then rebuilt around a BT40 tub .. which was much better than the BT38 I was told ..

I will try and find out the chassis number or where it came from.. I think the first Anson F3 car was also a BT38 based car.. not 100% sure .. My father still owns the first ground up Anson.. and very nice too !!

I may be able to post some pictures if I can work that out !!!

Welcome aboard Doug. Glad to hear your dad John is "still going" hopefully he is fit and well? Any info on the cars he ran in the British Sprint championship would be great and will help in resolving not only the BMSA database but also many Brabham Historians records.

Doug Hart · 28 Apr 2005, 14:35 (Ref:1543502)

Steve..

Spoke to my dad, he cannot recall the chassis number of the BT38 .. but he knows it came from the Isle of Mann.. should narrow it down, he bought it in 74 or 5, not sure when.. (I remember going to see a Chevron B19 BMW before he bought the BT38, but that was far too expensive.. £1900 including the engine and spare wheels ... and a Lotus 30 for £1500.. hmmm)

I can get some pictures of the 38/40 and will do next time I visit .. once it was destroyed everything was transferred onto a BT40 tub, that was apparently a works tub bought from Bernie of course... this had no chassis number on he recalls .. all the parts were the same ..

Interestingly Paul Edwards was a chef .. and a very good one I am told.. I have just realised what car the BT38 that ADO ran was.. it was a highly altered car, Mike Pilbeam did the mods I believe, I remember ADO going up Shelsey in sub 27 I think.. and at the time that was pretty mad to watch .. The wing was so far behind the wheels that it was probably 1 sec behind !!

I remember Tony Griffiths and he has a BT37 formula one car.. it was ex Rollingson and was absolutely like a new pin.. I think Martyn Griffiths may of run teh ADO after he sold it .. But I do not remember Tony G having a BT38.. it is all a long time ago .. I filmed a great super 8 of Prescott in 75 that had all these cars.. just can't find it

Doug

Steve Wilkinson · 28 Apr 2005, 15:19 (Ref:1543503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hart

Steve..

Interestingly Paul Edwards was a chef .. and a very good one I am told.. I have just realised what car the BT38 that ADO ran was.. it was a highly altered car, Mike Pilbeam did the mods I believe, I remember ADO going up Shelsey in sub 27 I think.. and at the time that was pretty mad to watch .. The wing was so far behind the wheels that it was probably 1 sec behind !!

Doug

Paul Edwards is still into catering - he's building a NEW hotel in the West Indes!

The ADO BT38 was initially modded by Mike Pilbeam. It was then rebuilt as Pilbeam R15 still with the Ford BD engine. When Pilbeam converted it to run the DFV it became R22. This was then copied and the MP22s were the result.

So now all we have to do is find a Manx BT38! Any offers?

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 07:48 (Ref:1543504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

This is my version of F2 BT38s
...
/23 Peter Westbury for sale Nov 1973 'unused since '72'

And here it is today:

http://www.carclassic.com/stock.asp?StockID=100622

I'm sure a polite enquiry would be enough to get its "full history".

Allen

Dan Rear · 29 Apr 2005, 09:56 (Ref:1543505)

Doug, I think the BT37 was Geoff Rollason, not Rollin(g)son. Is this car out nowadays in TGP or whatever the earlier series is called ? Simon Riley had a BT33 out the same time as Geoff R, I wonder where this one is now ?

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 12:15 (Ref:1543506)

Yes, the one in TGP is the only survivor: the ex-Rollason, ex-Cyprus, ex-Allen Brown car. Now owned by Hall & Hall, I presume.

Allen

Doug Hart · 29 Apr 2005, 18:01 (Ref:1543507)

Your right Dan.. it was a big white thing .. so Allen had a go in that beast

Simon Rileys car was the most mad paint scheme ever, so what did Tony Griffiths have.. it was a green a yellow car polished by the army as he was an officer as I remember.. it could of been a 33 ..

My father had a BT18 that was ex rindt before.. Winkelman racing one .. he cut it up and made it faster, then sold it on for £500 as a roller .. wonder where that is now ? I heard it was restored ..

Doug

allenbrown · 29 Apr 2005, 18:44 (Ref:1543508)

In? Not in. Just near. It was in bits when I was a (part) owner in the mid-90s. Roger Cowman and I worked for years to track it down through a string on increasingly obscure owners until we got to a Cypriot who had lived in a Manchester suburb ten years before. While I made friends at the local Orthodox church, Roger walked up and down the roads around where we'd found him on the electoral role trying to find someone who remembered him. After one long and fruitless evening he decided he'd just fill up his car at the filling station at the end of the road. The man in the kiosk looked vaguely Mediterranean so Roger asked his question one last time. Turns out he and our man were old friends...

That's not always how old F1 cars are found.

Six months later it arrived in six packing crates from Cyprus. The owner had obviously been very good at taking bits apart but not quite so good at putting them together. Everything was there, even the DFV, but it was as dismantled as a car could possible be. Hall & Fowler (as was) did a fantastic job of rebuilding it and it was completely immaculate and amazingly original when I last saw it.

Now you've reminded me of something. Did all the bills get settled? Hmmm...

Allen

Bryan Miller · 28 Jul 2005, 09:12 (Ref:1543509)

So we can't have Brabham threads slipping away ,

Autosport April 6th 1972 , page 7 report of Thruxton rd. of the F2 European Series and also of the John Player Series .

'' Heading the non graded drivers was championship favourite Carlos Reutemann in his Rondel Brabham BT38 [ BT38-14 ] having arrived back on Friday night from his Brazilian triumph .
Originally this was BT38-11 but the plates were swapped with Claudio Francisci for carnet purposes''

Bryan.

Swiss Toni · 10 Oct 2005, 14:01 (Ref:1543510)

Chris ,
I have just bought a BT38c / 21 .. Ex Conny Anderson 1972. The history is a little shady as it appears to have been on display in a museum for several years ..One thing confuses me about the car . Althought it is an F3 car and has a Hewland Mk8 fitted it has F2 Brakes and shafts ? I think at sometime it has been used in F2/ Atlantic .
Anyone who can throw some light on the subject ?

Bryan Miller · 10 Oct 2005, 22:28 (Ref:1543511)

If you could tell us where you are and where the car was located before your purchase it may assist quite a lot.

Bryan.

Jeremy Jackson · 25 Oct 2005, 22:14 (Ref:1542865)

Andrew,

Amweg did 3 F2 races in 1973 in the ex-Moser BT38-21, according to F1R, so is this BT36 at Monza another typo / error?

allenbrown · 11 Mar 2006, 12:36 (Ref:1543646)

This post marks the point at which much of the material in this thread was split out from the giant Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 thread and merged with a pre-existing BT38 thread.

Allen

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