[WTCC] Race 21 & 22 - Okayama (JAP), 25/26 October 2008 - Page 2

Martin Haven · 19 Oct 2008, 14:26 (Ref:2315923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbe

Valencia was Perez Aicart

Thank you for the reminder...

so has he done three SUNRED races this year, or am I imagining it/making it up??

Martin Haven · 19 Oct 2008, 14:28 (Ref:2315927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Unless he can break into the top 6 he's unlikely to get much TV coverage anyhow.

depends how dull the race at the front is... but your point is well made...

however, when you forget the TV cameras, you also forget the crowd, who sit further back, behind fences and without zoom lenses on their eyes...

if the TV cameras can't pick the cars out, you've wasted any hope of the fans at trackside knowing who the sponsor is

see NASCAR for a good idea of how to make liveries work... with HUGE numbers on the roof so even your mum and dad can tell who is who...

look and learn everyone!

Les · 19 Oct 2008, 14:30 (Ref:2315930)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

He's doing the European Touring Car Cup as his prize drive... his 3rd of the year in that car!

Valencia - for winning 2007 Spanish Supercopa, as well as once for winning in Eurocup and now for being the Champion...

oh dear - Nogues was rather OTT in the ETCC today

redshoes · 19 Oct 2008, 16:27 (Ref:2315987)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

however, when you forget the TV cameras, you also forget the crowd, who sit further back, behind fences and without zoom lenses on their eyes...

In this instance having a black car actually makes it easier to identify. As you say the crowd are far enough back that most will not see the coloured mirrors or other subtle differences in livery that identify different teammates. Even the most uneducated of spectators wouldn't mistake a SEAT for a BMW but how many can differentiate between the Chevys without looking at the race numbers.

Quote:

if the TV cameras can't pick the cars out, you've wasted any hope of the fans at trackside knowing who the sponsor is

If today's ETC Cup coverage is anything to go by the TV cameras have trouble finding the track let alone picking out the cars

Most spectators won't care who the sponsors are, they will just be able to spot one black BMW against a number of mostly white ones. However from I sponsor's point of view, I take your point.

Quote:

see NASCAR for a good idea of how to make liveries work... with HUGE numbers on the roof so even your mum and dad can tell who is who...
look and learn everyone!

They need the huge numbers, can you tell the difference between a Ford and a Chevy? You're right though, the reason it works for NASCAR is that every car has a different sponsor and a different livery. You don't get 5 cars all the same base colour with variations on the corporate livery as we get with BMW.

Monkey Head · 20 Oct 2008, 13:18 (Ref:2316689)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

For winning the SEAT Eurocup event at Monza he will race only in Japan. I am not sure if SUNRED will enter the Leon in Macau. Maybe the winner of the SEAT Eurocup series (Oscar Nogués) will drive the Leon at Macau?

I think they will enter as this Leon has to go to Macau as logicstic factor.
They will try their best to get Locals to rent it,if Nogues not planned by race by SEAT

the sniper · 21 Oct 2008, 21:53 (Ref:2317913)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

If today's ETC Cup coverage is anything to go by the TV cameras have trouble finding the track let alone picking out the cars

It really was atrocious though, even worse then the already poor WTCC coverage...

Stefvh · 25 Oct 2008, 08:25 (Ref:2320409)

Code:

Pos  Driver              Car                  Time
 1.  Augusto Farfus      BMW 320si            1:37.040
 2.  Jorg Muller         BMW 320si            1:37.267  + 0.227
 3.  Gabriele Tarquini   SEAT Leon TDI        1:37.272  + 0.232
 4.  Tiago Monteiro      SEAT Leon TDI        1:37.354  + 0.314
 5.  Alain Menu          Chevrolet Lacetti    1:37.422  + 0.382
 6.  Rickard Rydell      SEAT Leon TDI        1:37.458  + 0.418
 7.  Stefano D'Aste      BMW 320si            1:37.534  + 0.494
 8.  Robert Huff         Chevrolet Lacetti    1:37.610  + 0.570
 9.  Felix Porteiro      BMW 320si            1:37.668  + 0.628
10.  Yvan Muller         SEAT Leon TDI        1:37.704  + 0.664
11.  Andy Priaulx        BMW 320si            1:37.740  + 0.700
12.  Sergio Hernandez    BMW 320si            1:37.770  + 0.730
13.  Jordi Gene          SEAT Leon TDI        1:37.773  + 0.733
14.  James Thompson      Honda Accord Euro R  1:37.887  + 0.847
15.  Takayuki Aoki       BMW 320si            1:37.937  + 0.897
16.  Franz Engstler      BMW 320si            1:38.041  + 1.001
17.  Tom Coronel         SEAT Leon            1:38.146  + 1.106
18.  Alessandro Zanardi  BMW 320si            1:38.189  + 1.149
19.  Nicola Larini       Chevrolet Lacetti    1:38.322  + 1.282
20.  Norbert Michelisz   SEAT Leon            1:38.421  + 1.381
21.  Manabu Orido        Chevrolet Lacetti    1:38.543  + 1.503
22.  Jaap Van Lagen      Lada 110             1:39.141  + 2.101
23.  Yukinori Taniguchi  Honda Accord Euro R  1:39.832  + 2.792
24.  Matthew Marsh       BMW 320si            1:39.914  + 2.874
25.  Andrey Romanov      BMW 320si            1:39.920  + 2.880
26.  Kirill Ladygin      Lada 110             1:40.278  + 3.238
27.  Ibrahim Okyay       BMW 320si            1:40.858  + 3.818
28.  Masaki Kano         BMW 320i             1:41.559  + 4.519
29.  Melvin Choo         BMW 320si            1:42.547  + 5.507

Aslak Vind · 25 Oct 2008, 10:31 (Ref:2320465)

Farfus could really do with a nice trophy, it has been a while!

**FIRE** · 25 Oct 2008, 11:20 (Ref:2320492)

Aoki did very well.

Ellmau · 25 Oct 2008, 15:50 (Ref:2320617)

Eventhough Tarquini set the third fastest time, he will start from eighth because of his Monza penalty. Just one row ahead of Muller.

Aslak Vind · 25 Oct 2008, 16:16 (Ref:2320634)

Amazed that the LadaÂ´s didnt do worse. Please dont get me wrong, but the cars are hardly contemporary.

Ellmau · 25 Oct 2008, 17:37 (Ref:2320660)

In fact, Shapalov gave his car to Van Lagen, because he had blown up his engine in practise. During qualifying, Van Lagen suffered from gear box problems (Shapalov's gearbox), so his qualifying position is not bad at all.

E46 · 26 Oct 2008, 07:34 (Ref:2320908)

Surprisingly people seemed to miss the best two races this season.

Stefvh · 26 Oct 2008, 07:51 (Ref:2320915)

yeah, good ones.

Congrats Tom.

JMeissner · 26 Oct 2008, 09:10 (Ref:2320961)

Congrats to Rydell:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2862

And Coronel:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2863

Aslak Vind · 26 Oct 2008, 09:14 (Ref:2320965)

Eventhough Rickard won Race 1 due to some blocking, he still made Seat win the manufacturers title. Good job, interesting with Tom Coronel winning Race 2 in a petrol Seat.

Rain and wets will always make changes

E46 · 26 Oct 2008, 09:29 (Ref:2320973)

Being Spaniard I donÂ´t forget to mention SUNRED, getting its first win in WTCC, and Sergio HernÃ¡ndez achieving his first podium. Definitvely HernÃ¡ndez looks like a touring car driver to watch in a near future, being fast and smart (which Stefano DÂ´Aste isnÂ´t).

trebor901 · 26 Oct 2008, 10:08 (Ref:2320991)

WTCC is THE MOST boring touring car championship around, BMW might aswell pull out and join a descent touring car series like BTCC where there are no cheats and diesels to hinder them.

Matt_S · 26 Oct 2008, 11:15 (Ref:2321016)

I do wonder why so much was made on the TV coverage of Hernandez winning the Independents' trophy when he hasn't done.

By my maths he is 29 points ahead of D'Aste with 40 to play for at Macau thanks to the double points on offer to the Independents.

On the form his displayed though, its his to win now - very impressive performance from Proteam despite D'Aste's apparent brain fade in race two.

Martin Haven · 26 Oct 2008, 11:25 (Ref:2321021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_S

I do wonder why so much was made on the TV coverage of Hernandez winning the Independents' trophy when he hasn't done.

By my maths he is 29 points ahead of D'Aste with 40 to play for at Macau thanks to the double points on offer to the Independents.

On the form his displayed though, its his to win now - very impressive performance from Proteam despite D'Aste's apparent brain fade in race two.

probly just me being stupid... usually is...
trying to talk, count and lap-chart at the same time makes my brain hurt...

**touringlegend** · 26 Oct 2008, 11:26 (Ref:2321022)

Good races though, a bit of rain never fails to spice a race up. The track layout was good too in that you could regain a lost position at the next corner etc.

Martin - you talked of double points yesterday but forgot about them today!

Martin Haven · 26 Oct 2008, 11:28 (Ref:2321023)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Good races though, a bit of rain never fails to spice a race up. The track layout was good too in that you could regain a lost position at the next corner etc.

Martin - you talked of double points yesterday but forgot about them today!

Yeah... I know...

it WAS a good touring car track wasn't it... wonder if it'd have been as exciting in the dry - maybe we'll find out next year...

**FIRE** · 26 Oct 2008, 12:33 (Ref:2321057)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E46

Surprisingly people seemed to miss the best two races this season.

No, no I didn't miss (not entirely true, I missed the last few laps of race 1 due sleepy eyes...

). Race 1 was a bit boring but race 2 was great. Great battles and Coronel

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by E46

Being Spaniard I donÂ´t forget to mention SUNRED, getting its first win in WTCC, and Sergio HernÃ¡ndez achieving his first podium. Definitvely HernÃ¡ndez looks like a touring car driver to watch in a near future, being fast and smart (which Stefano DÂ´Aste isnÂ´t).

Hernandez is a very talented driver.Would he do better as Porteiro in the BMW Spain car? D'Aste is indeed a driver who makes often silly mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebor901

WTCC is THE MOST boring touring car championship around, BMW might aswell pull out and join a descent touring car series like BTCC where there are no cheats and diesels to hinder them.

You may not like the politics of WTCC but you can't say WTCC is boring. For example race 2 was great racing.

BTW next year the AFM BMW 120d is back...

JMeissner · 26 Oct 2008, 12:51 (Ref:2321071)

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2865

Results suspended and some penalties...

Martin Haven · 26 Oct 2008, 14:14 (Ref:2321086)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMeissner

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2865

Results suspended and some penalties...

Oh great... "could have been avoided by more cautious driving"

excuse me but isn't this a racing championship?? not a 'cautious driving' championship...

he could have avoided the accident by not driving fast on a slippery wet surface, staying in a nice dry garage - but do we want our racing drivers to play follow-the-leader like F1 drivers???

OK, he cocked it up... braked too late... hit someone... but that's what happens when you're battling an equal car for a championship...

let them RACE, for God's sake...

and where was the penalty for Yvan Muller punting Thompson out of Race 1??

avoidable accident??? certainly!!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
[WTCC] Race 19 & 20 - Monza (ITA), 4/5 October 2008	FIRE	Touring Car Racing	36	6 Oct 2008 09:48
[WTCC] Race 17 & 18 - Imola (ITA), 20/21 September 2008	FIRE	Touring Car Racing	54	25 Sep 2008 14:22
[WTCC] Race 13 & 14 - Brands Hatch (GBR), 26/27 July 2008	FIRE	Touring Car Racing	51	30 Jul 2008 10:05
[WTCC] Race 21 & 22 - Macau (MAC), 16/18 November 2007	FIRE	Touring Car Racing	170	23 Nov 2007 10:22
[WTCC] Race 15 & 16 - Oschersleben (GER), 25/26 August 2007	FIRE	Touring Car Racing	57	4 Sep 2007 16:29