Alfa Romeo in 2006 WTCC or not ? - Page 2

Hazard · 25 Oct 2005, 21:01 (Ref:1443368)

Not forgetting that rumours are still abound of Alfa Romeo's possible entry into the DTM in '06 instead, the 159 would be far more suited to the DTM there than S2000.

**touringlegend** · 25 Oct 2005, 21:27 (Ref:1443393)

Good point Hazard, let's not forget Alfa Romeo wanted their car to be now more luxurious than sporty. Mercedes and Audi in the DTM are the perfect pair to achieve the aim of marketing your car as luxurious yet still sporty surely.

Craner Curves · 25 Oct 2005, 21:36 (Ref:1443402)

Plenty of spare Alfa S2000 cars and three handy drivers going round then. Come on Alfa UK, you know it makes sense.

mountainstar · 25 Oct 2005, 23:54 (Ref:1443483)

DTM would be a better fit for Alfa compared to the WTCC.

Alfa Fan · 26 Oct 2005, 09:59 (Ref:1443747)

They'd be able to run the Alfa 159s in the BTCC. No homologation isssues here

**FIRE** · 26 Oct 2005, 11:24 (Ref:1443831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

DTM would be a better fit for Alfa compared to the WTCC.

Why?

If you are right, I think this is also true:
"DTM would be a better fit for BMW compared to the WTCC."

Dani Filth · 26 Oct 2005, 11:44 (Ref:1443853)

Alfa would be good in whatever series it enters

.. it's Alfa Romeo afterall

kmchow · 26 Oct 2005, 16:27 (Ref:1444100)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa Fan

They'd be able to run the Alfa 159s in the BTCC. No homologation isssues here

Now I wonder how many hours designers have "wasted" on the 147 or 159, but only to have the program cancelled? I wonder if there are any partially unbuilt chassis lying around somewhere too! What a waste of resources? Or would Alfa simply become a constructor/supplier, but not racer of their cars, like Ford. Certainly the loss of Alfa would be a major blow to the WTCC. The series was just getting settled down. Wasn't BMW cutting back it's support too?

Dani Filth · 26 Oct 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1444145)

with their own F1 team . they might . . but maybe this way more cars are able to win

hopefully at least in private hands he would see the alfa raced in 2006

kmchow · 26 Oct 2005, 17:45 (Ref:1444155)

Critics always says that there should be more independents and less Works efforts. But how long can a series last without Works support. Do European manufacturers offer very lucrative contingency/reward programs? Over here in the US, they Acura/BMW/Mazda/Dodge have very lucrative(??) contingency programs to encourage independents to race in our touring car championship which is probably close to SP rules.

redshoes · 26 Oct 2005, 18:05 (Ref:1444192)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa Fan

They'd be able to run the Alfa 159s in the BTCC. No homologation isssues here

Any BTCC programme would need to be paid for by Alfa UK. If they used the 159 they'd also need to pay for the development cost. Alfa UK just don't have the budget needed to do that.

Alfa Fan · 26 Oct 2005, 18:17 (Ref:1444216)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Any BTCC programme would need to be paid for by Alfa UK. If they used the 159 they'd also need to pay for the development cost. Alfa UK just don't have the budget needed to do that.

It wasn't really a serious suggestion.

**FIRE** · 26 Oct 2005, 20:14 (Ref:1444385)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmchow

Critics always says that there should be more independents and less Works efforts. But how long can a series last without Works support. Do European manufacturers offer very lucrative contingency/reward programs? Over here in the US, they Acura/BMW/Mazda/Dodge have very lucrative(??) contingency programs to encourage independents to race in our touring car championship which is probably close to SP rules.

BMW has such programme, don't know if it's lucrative.

racer69 · 28 Oct 2005, 01:48 (Ref:1445621)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

DTM would be a better fit for Alfa compared to the WTCC.

I'm not sure how this would be so.

How would a formula for V8 RWD cars be a better fit than the S2000 formula when Alfa Romeo has neither (as far as i know) a V8 or a rear wheel drive car in their current vehicle range.

mountainstar · 28 Oct 2005, 03:06 (Ref:1445639)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I'm not sure how this would be so.

How would a formula for V8 RWD cars be a better fit than the S2000 formula when Alfa Romeo has neither (as far as i know) a V8 or a rear wheel drive car in their current vehicle range.

The Audi races their A4 which would arguably be better for S2000, but with exception of the STCC they're in the DTM. I see the DTM as an image deal more than anything, the chassis are all identical underneath regardless of the marque(audi, mercedes, opel).

flor · 28 Oct 2005, 04:47 (Ref:1445668)

no they arent, thats why opel didnt win any races

kmchow · 28 Oct 2005, 04:53 (Ref:1445671)

I'm not sure if similar incentive programs (expressed in US $) were offered in the BTCC by manufacturers, would be enough incentive for Independents to run in the BTCC? In the US, here are some of the manufacturer payouts. Currently, Mazda US has the richest contingency payout.

Honda US pays
1st - $7500
2nd - $6000
3rd - $4000
4th-10th - $2000
11th-20th - $1000

BMW NA offers
1st - $4000
2nd - $3000
3rd - $2000
4th - $1000
5th - $500
Driver's Championship - $5000
Manufacturer's Championship* - $500

Mazda US
1st - $10,000
2nd - $7,500
3rd - $5,000
4th - $4,000
5th - $3,500
6th - $3,000
7th - $2,000
8th - $1,750
9th - $1,500
10th - $1,250
11th - 15th $1,000
16th - 20th $750

Valker · 28 Oct 2005, 09:29 (Ref:1445842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The Audi races their A4 which would arguably be better for S2000, but with exception of the STCC they're in the DTM.

Two ex-STCC Audi are in Finnish Super2000Race and they are doing fine (2004 champion, 2005 2nd)

gwyllion · 28 Oct 2005, 12:51 (Ref:1446029)

It is almost official now: Alfa Romeo to leave WTCC (autosport.com)

kmchow · 28 Oct 2005, 17:41 (Ref:1446217)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The Audi races their A4 which would arguably be better for S2000, but with exception of the STCC they're in the DTM.

Did the STCC Audis did have some technical or chassis help from Audi Germany? I know the Audi S4/S6 that raced in NA were prepared by the same guys that built the British ST A4s?

**FIRE** · 28 Oct 2005, 18:25 (Ref:1446245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmchow

Did the STCC Audis did have some technical or chassis help from Audi Germany? I know the Audi S4/S6 that raced in NA were prepared by the same guys that built the British ST A4s?

If I remember well the STCC Audis were (partly) developed by Audi Sport.

J-C · 28 Oct 2005, 18:57 (Ref:1446267)

I feel sorry for Thommo, though I wouldn't blame him for moving on from the BTCC where he had nothing left to prove or achieve having won a couple of titles. It is also a big blow for the WTCC which looked like a series that was thriving. With the DTM currently down to 2 manufacturers and the BTCC not exactly in the best of health, it seems European-based touring car racing is having a lean time of it in terms of manufacturer involvement.

**touringlegend** · 28 Oct 2005, 19:52 (Ref:1446314)

The Autosport Mag article did mention that the WTCC boss Marcello Lotti (forgive me if I have spelt his name wrongly) was trying to put together a loan of 2 156's to a Privateer team, and with the blessing of Alfa, they could still be entered as a works team.

Perhaps Thommo will go there, although I feel he'd be stupid to refused a VXR BTCC drive if it was offered to him.

Regards the WTCC, it's a pity that Alfa Romeo are leaving. But it's a sign that no championship is so perfect a manufacturer can't afford to leave it. I don't mean to be rude but it may stop a lot of people going on about how great it is. A reality check if you like.

Hazard · 28 Oct 2005, 20:27 (Ref:1446343)

If I'm brutally honest, the loss of Alfa, though a blow...won't cause much damage to the WTCC I feel. BMW will now have Seat to bat off, and Chevrolet, Ford and Honda will neatly fill out the top 8 - which is all you see on TV anyway.

Sodemo · 28 Oct 2005, 20:39 (Ref:1446348)

The loss of any manufacturer is a blow to any championship.

The BTCC virtually died over the course of 2 years through no works support.

1998 - 8 works teams
2000 - 3 works teams

Its a sad sight to see Alfa leave, even if their racing values & tactics are questionable on occassions.

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