HRT/TWR Cars - Page 2

mctshirt · 16 Jun 2007, 23:51 (Ref:1939196)

The top ten results so far sans the 4 car Walkinshoddy team:

Adelaide Race 1
2 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
3 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
5 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
7 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
8 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
9 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
10 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon
11 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
12 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Dean Canto Holden Commodore
13 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon

Adelaide Race 2
3 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
4 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
5 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
6 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
8 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
9 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
11 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
12 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
13 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore
14 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon

Perth Race 1
4 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
5 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
6 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
7 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
8 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
9 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
10 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
11 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
12 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore
13 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore

Perth Race 2
4 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
5 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
6 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
7 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
8 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
9 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
11 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Ford Falcon
12 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore
13 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
14 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon

Perth Race 3
4 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
5 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
6 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
7 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore
8 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
9 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
10 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
11 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
12 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
13 8 WPS Racing Max Wilson Ford Falcon
14 111 Glenfords Racing John Bowe Ford Falcon

NZ Race 1
2 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
4 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
5 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
7 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore
8 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
9 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
11 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
12 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden
13 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
14 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon

NZ Race 2
2 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
5 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
7 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
8 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
9 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
10 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Ford Falcon
11 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
12 8 WOW Sight & Sound Max Wilson Ford Falcon
13 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
14 100 Supercheap Auto Racing Cameron McConville Holden Commodore

NZ Race 3
3 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
4 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
5 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
6 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
7 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Ford Falcon
10 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
11 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
12 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
13 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
14 8 WOW Sight & Sound Max Wilson Ford Falcon

Winton Race 1
1 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
2 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
5 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
6 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
7 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon
8 67 Team Sirromet Wines Paul Morris Holden Commodore
9 8 WPS Racing Max Wilson Ford Falcon
10 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore
11 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon
12 50 Supercheap Auto Racing Cameron McConville Holden Commodore

Winton Race 2
2 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
4 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
5 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
6 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
7 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore
8 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
9 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon
10 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Ford Falcon
12 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Ford Falcon
13 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore

Winton Race 2
2 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
5 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
6 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
7 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
8 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
9 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
10 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
11 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore
12 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
13 021 Team Kiwi Racing Paul Radisich Ford Falcon

EC Race 1
2 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
6 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
7 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
8 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon
9 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
10 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
11 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
12 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
13 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore
14 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon

EC Race 2
3 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon
4 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
6 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
7 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
8 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
9 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
10 67 Team Sirromet Wines Paul Morris Holden Commodore
11 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
12 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore
13 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon

EC Race 3
2 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon
6 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon
7 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon
8 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon
9 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon
10 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon
11 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore
12 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon
13 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon
14 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon

It appears the Fords would be dominating if it wasn't for total TWR domination - enough of the manufacturer parity nonsense please. One team is dominating not Holden.

n.kuiper · 17 Jun 2007, 00:02 (Ref:1939210)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmorri

Thanks v8, that's what I've been saying also. But not so much ballast that a car is not competitve. What I have been thinking is that the fastest cars only carry enough ballast, not to hurt their qualifying speed but to just take the edge off their lap times towards the end of a race (due to tyre wear) so as to enable those behind to mount some pressure. Hopefully it might mimic the glory days when the GTHO's would get to an early lead only to be under pressure at race end by the XU1's. Let's get away from the boring processional racing!

thats stupid itll wreck the championship if you start slowing down the quicker cars with ballast it doesnt work.

Dazz · 17 Jun 2007, 01:21 (Ref:1939258)

When you look at it without goggles, the whole parity thing, it's really not an issue.

My wife commented on the weekend how much it looked like Todd Kelly was holding up Lowndes in the last race at the Creek and if he got past he'd most like pull away. I kind of agree with that.

She also commented that she was a little surprised that Skaife wasn't able to really make a strong challenge on Lowndes in that last race, considering how much pace he had in the earlier races.

So had Lowndes have qualified better and been in a better starting position from race one does anyone think he would not have been an equal chance to win some races?

Skaife proved you can start first and be third into the first corner and stay there no matter how good your car is working.

Tander also proved that having a fast car meant nothing once you're burried in the pack and is of very little use unless you can simply power past someone.

For whatever reason, the Walkinshaw cars have been hitting the track and have been quickish out of the box, meaning less tyres thrown at them to get into the top ten, and better rubber for the races, which logically means better race pace.

Would anyone hear say that Whincup is a better driver than Lowndes? They are in the same team, share the same car technology and have access to all the same data, yet so far Lowndes is looking like the lesser of the two drivers especially in qualifying.

If you play devils advocate and imagined Whincup was in a Commodore and Lowndes was in a Falcon you'd have to scream parity wouldn't you? Because obvioisly Lowndes should not be being dusted off like he is. Quite obviously Whincup's "Commodore" has a pure advantage in qualifying which must be aero related in some way and allows the car to work better in a qualifying format!

If you go the other way, who hear thinks that all four Walkinshaw cars are using exactly the same spring rates front and rear, damper settings, roll bar settings, tyre pressures, camber, castor, toe-in and ride height settings for every race?

Bottom line os for whatever reason, basically the HRT and Toll guys are getting the best from their cars at the moment. And that's not to say they are smarter or working harder or doing a better job, they just have found what works so far.

Lowndes and Kelly were putting in lap times only thousandths of a second apart so I really find it hard to blame parity for the race win tally this year.

Anyway, I'm sure this post will get torn apart but anyway that's what I think.

n.kuiper · 17 Jun 2007, 01:34 (Ref:1939269)

yea i think you are deffinately right people just look at the results not who had the best lap times and the fact that we are only just over a third of the season theres lots of racing to go so who knows what will happen for the rest of the year

TSR · 17 Jun 2007, 02:57 (Ref:1939316)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mctshirt

It appears the Fords would be dominating if it wasn't for total TWR domination - enough of the manufacturer parity nonsense please. One team is dominating not Holden.

You reckon.

stmorri · 17 Jun 2007, 03:30 (Ref:1939327)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

thats stupid itll wreck the championship if you start slowing down the quicker cars with ballast it doesnt work.

There seems to be enough people that think the championship is being wrecked with the way things are now!......or else we wouldn't be sitting at our computers arguing about it.

TSR · 17 Jun 2007, 04:09 (Ref:1939349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

thats stupid itll wreck the championship if you start slowing down the quicker cars with ballast it doesnt work.

Funny how it works OS in other series, but the way the supertaxi are going under the dollar hungry VE$A & TEGA this series is heading down the S-Bend very quickly, even there GOD almighty boss is in the poo with teams owners.
Time will tell.

v8smoker · 17 Jun 2007, 05:11 (Ref:1939390)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

or maybe have TW build all the Holden cars and SBR or 888 to build the fords with everything as control parts, then they are all matched and if one is slower than the other then it's the team and their setup

.

Thats what the differance between winning an not winning is now the team an there set up plus driver quality
The cream always rises to the top no matter what the rules are. If you want Andy Jones an BOC to win a race this year go find the Pixe dust

n.kuiper · 17 Jun 2007, 05:48 (Ref:1939417)

some of you guys are a glass half empty kind the championship is fine is not going down its going up theres more big name sponsors than ever and a way bigger tv audience, there are a few issues at the moment but its not the end of the world like some people think

pete55 · 17 Jun 2007, 05:58 (Ref:1939422)

Where are the more big name sponsors compared to what we had 2 years ago or even five years ago. As for TV audience, way bigger? I don't know about that either. More teams are struggling to fund their teams now than there were a few years ago. Merchandising sales if you believe the word around are also down. All is not that rosy.

xr8 · 17 Jun 2007, 06:45 (Ref:1939461)

V8 supercars are headingt in the same direction as F1 cars! Lowndnes was clearly faster in the last race at EC but could only follow. If the powers that be do not take action to make the racing better and allow for easy overtaking we will end up with boring races just like F1!

TSR · 17 Jun 2007, 07:45 (Ref:1939507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete55

Where are the more big name sponsors compared to what we had 2 years ago or even five years ago. As for TV audience, way bigger? I don't know about that either. More teams are struggling to fund their teams now than there were a few years ago. Merchandising sales if you believe the word around are also down. All is not that rosy.

Agree 100%, but don't get me started on merchandise, what a BLOODY rip off. $90 for a polo.

Chatters · 17 Jun 2007, 08:42 (Ref:1939562)

Don't buy it, then the teams will go broke and you can all complain some more...

observer · 17 Jun 2007, 09:28 (Ref:1939598)

[QUOTE=Dazz]She also commented that she was a little surprised that Skaife wasn't able to really make a strong challenge on Lowndes in that last race, considering how much pace he had in the earlier races.[QUOTE]

Don't reckon he tried, he just hung safe to win the round!

Apart from that, you all come on here and whinge about v8supercars,
how bad it is etc etc, if its making you feel that bad, don't watch the f$%^&g thing.

Pro Racer · 17 Jun 2007, 10:22 (Ref:1939637)

i 100% agree with BJ what he said on the panel beaters preview of EC show, they are dominant but you can't do nothing as they are doing nothing illegal. they are getting the little things right that others arn't IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by observer
Apart from that, you all come on here and whinge about v8supercars,
how bad it is etc etc, if its making you feel that bad, don't watch the f$%^&g thing

just because we don't like certain aspects that should be rectified dosn't mean V8 Supercars in a whole is crap and makes us feel bad, it's just a few things and we voice our opinion on these things.

STEALTHY · 17 Jun 2007, 11:41 (Ref:1939776)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

just because we don't like certain aspects that should be rectified dosn't mean V8 Supercars in a whole is crap and makes us feel bad, it's just a few things and we voice our opinion on these things.

Have to agree, i think the telecast is crap, but being the only place i can watch it, i still will, and they know that. Same for the series, they know this is our top level of motorsport, so of course we are still going to watch, buy merchandise etc. Keep in mind, V8supercars are a business, there to make money! Thats why everything cost so much.

Also PR, why didn't you include a pic of Brocks Seirra, after all, it wore 05 before any commodore.

SSbaby · 17 Jun 2007, 12:28 (Ref:1939823)

I recall the good old days when Sierras dominated the grid (as every driver had to have one to have any chance) and were therefore winning every round. Those were great days hey... NOT? Thanks to Larry for keeping us Holden V8 fans proud.

Now that we have a parity formula, people continue to whinge. I guess any team that can't win will always whinge although some are more vocal than others... as are their fans.

People are simply jealous of the TWR empire because they do a better job than the rest of the field. Just as SBR did while Ambrose was pedalling.

STEALTHY · 17 Jun 2007, 15:58 (Ref:1939985)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

People are simply jealous of the TWR empire because they do a better job than the rest of the field. Just as SBR did while Ambrose was pedalling.

Ford fans have selective memories. Of course they wont remember something that would lose the arguement for them.....

Alan Jones · 17 Jun 2007, 18:34 (Ref:1940086)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

Agree 100%, but don't get me started on merchandise, what a BLOODY rip off. $90 for a polo.

Agree totally, why pay so much to be a walking advetising board for their sponsors - one would think they'd give them away.

Pro Racer · 17 Jun 2007, 20:20 (Ref:1940185)

tip: what i do on the mech front is buy a hat from either my fav driver or team that is usally about $25-$30 (can always take it of if they loose can't do that with a shirt) and then i just where my Holden shirt that you can buy from the markets for around the same price as the cap and it is hard to tell the difference from the original and that way i support any Holden that wins and i come out a lot cheaper then buying everything from the teams.the only things other than hats i have bourt from the teams is an old Brockie shirt a 2005 Murph shirt and a 2005 HRT jacket and a 2002 Team Brock flag (that i still proudly wave at the races, gives me a good feeling had it waving at EC when Skaife broke the record), i might sound cheap but atleast it saves me money and i am still in the gear for the brand i support.

stmorri · 17 Jun 2007, 23:03 (Ref:1940342)

Quote:

Originally Posted by observer

Apart from that, you all come on here and whinge about v8supercars,
how bad it is etc etc, if its making you feel that bad, don't watch the f$%^&g thing.

The most interesting thing about the V8's is coming on this forum and arguing with everyone, and if we don't watch the telecast, well then we can't argue!

johnh875 · 18 Jun 2007, 01:18 (Ref:1940403)

I think one of the key things helping the HRT/HSV domination is they have had far more stability than the other teams, which runs back many years. The continuity of personnel and data would be hard to match in any other team.

goosel · 18 Jun 2007, 02:33 (Ref:1940426)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

Thats what this series has being like since the end of 2004. BORING.

Well if you think it's been boring for the past three years, then why the hell do you still watch it? Why are you still interested? Furthermore, why do you keep coming on here, and boring the rest of us with your mindless whinging?

For gods sake, grow up!

billy bigtime · 18 Jun 2007, 02:44 (Ref:1940430)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnh875

I think one of the key things helping the HRT/HSV domination is they have had far more stability than the other teams, which runs back many years. The continuity of personnel and data would be hard to match in any other team.

BS!

mmciau · 18 Jun 2007, 02:50 (Ref:1940433)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnh875

I think one of the key things helping the HRT/HSV domination is they have had far more stability than the other teams, which runs back many years. The continuity of personnel and data would be hard to match in any other team.

I'd suggest the word you should have added is "key personnel" - and just because Grech is gone doesn't disqualify what you say.

There has been stability - sure they get some things wrong but they are up the pointy end!

Mike

mike

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