Getting started in racing

[runshaw]

Sorry to put the damper on guys but get real. Sponsors don't happen like that!

Erm, have you been reading this thread?? If you look at my comments on here, do any of them suggest that you can get sponsors just like that? NO. If you read them im sure you'll come across me saying that the chances of gaining sponsorship are TINY (especially for someone like me). Do you not think that with me being a wannabe racing driver that I would know that sponsorship is bloody hard to find? I am only 18, but I have followed motorsport since I was 9 and in the past few years I have spoken to numerous race teams, ch'ship coordinaters and team managers on how to get started. Believe me I am certainly a REALIST and to be honest i cannot believe you put 'get real'. I have saved up for 2 years through part time jobs whilst studying at school/college, and managed to save over £2k just to get a test of some sort in the near future. And you tell me to get real? hmmm

[Mackmot]

Id say get real. Follow the advice and concentrate on your real career.

If you ignore this advice then good on you but best thing to do is not even talk about it or people will think you are stupid. Its possible to make it but be prepared to sell your granny and your soul, you have to be insane.

Also be prepared for every ducker in the world to take your hard earned money of you without a care and you will not learn or achieve a thing.

Its hard so dont do it unless you are really prepared for it.

[runshaw]

Mackmot I am following the advice and all this info is great, especially about Vee. I just meant that I am a realist, thats all, but some people seem to think im not. And i know it is hard as I have said, but I cannot even comprehend not becoming a racing driver one day, thats why I have made sacrifices to save up as much money as I can in order to prepare for a test. There is also no way I would ignore the advice on this thread- I was just simply making a point that I am a realist. By the way- does Mackmot stand for Mackie Motorsport?

[Neil1982]

Don't blow your 2K on a test in a single seater straight away...... Compared to many I am no expert, but before doing a one off test in a single seater for a reputable team (Which from the thread I guess its what your after) I suggest you find a 'club racer' who will rent you a drive for a fraction of the price. I know their are plenty of people in monoposto (and I am sure many other club championships) who will do such a thing in anything from a F.Ford, FF2000, F.Vauxhall F.Renault, Jedi/Speads to a recent F3 car. (You can also learn more than you think from a club racer with years of experience)

The reason I say this is that driving a single seater for the first time is an experience far from driving anything else..... and a little experience before a 'serious test' can do you no harm in trying to impress a team straight 'out of the box,' and could probably be done at a fraction of the cost.

[woodyracing]

runshaw if you have 2k to spend, in my opinion you would get more out of spending it in karts than say 2 tests in a formula vee. You have to consider that a test and some minor damage can easily eat up £1000 and if you write off a hire car you could have a bill for £5k. The other alternative is to save the money till you can afford to buy a car and run it.

[woodyracing]

I forgot to mention, if you want a taste of single seater driving most circuits do single seater experience courses for £200 ish or less, its probably worth doing one of them. I went to 3 Sisters in Wigan to drive their Formula Fords.

[runshaw]

Thanks Neil for that advice- I was always thinking that testing a clubmans car would be far better than trying to impress a 'big' team in my very first test. And considering the prices between national series single seaters (like UKFF) and regional/club single seaters, I suppose you can actually get far more testing days for your money because it is so much more cheaper and still learn loads. And you mentioned Monoposto, im sure I have seen that race at Outlton, is that the series where there are loads of single seaters like FF, Frenault, F3, FF2000 etc? That could be good so thanks for that.

[StephenRae]

Originally Posted by Neil1982

Don't blow your 2K on a test in a single seater straight away...... Compared to many I am no expert, but before doing a one off test in a single seater for a reputable team (Which from the thread I guess its what your after) I suggest you find a 'club racer' who will rent you a drive for a fraction of the price. I know their are plenty of people in monoposto (and I am sure many other club championships) who will do such a thing in anything from a F.Ford, FF2000, F.Vauxhall F.Renault, Jedi/Speads to a recent F3 car. (You can also learn more than you think from a club racer with years of experience)

The reason I say this is that driving a single seater for the first time is an experience far from driving anything else..... and a little experience before a 'serious test' can do you no harm in trying to impress a team straight 'out of the box,' and could probably be done at a fraction of the cost.

This is the most sense I've read on this thread...another way in is to work at a racing school..for nothing if necessary..strapping in and refuelling etc. you will get to drive something eventually..at least that way you won't make a total tit of yourself when you "do your big test"

[RAY DACKOMBE]

The Old Way Of Doing Things If Your Dads Not Rich, Find A Club Racer,be His Gofer, Progress To Spanering,learn About Racing, Make Contacts, It Takes Time But It Can Be Worth It, One Way To Find Out If You Like Being Invoved And Not Spending Your 2k

[Neil1982]

Originally Posted by runshaw

And you mentioned Monoposto, im sure I have seen that race at Outlton, is that the series where there are loads of single seaters like FF, Frenault, F3, FF2000 etc? That could be good so thanks for that.

Yes Monoposto caters for all categories of single seater racing. Broadly speaking they have 2 grids at each meeting. One grid is usually made up with the Mono 2000 class (Formula 3, Formula Renault 2000, Formula Vauxhall Lotus, Formula Ireland) and the Monoposto 1800 Class (F.Ford 1800s, old F.Ford 2000 F. Vauxhall Junior 16v).

The other grid usually has the Monoposto 600 and 1200 classes (Jedi/Speads) and also the Monoposto 1600 class (F.Ford 1600, F. Vauxhall Junior 8v, and F.Renault 1700).

Both grids contain very competent club racers, including ex British Champions from various disciplines, so it’s not a bad place to start a career and learn a few of the basic skills needed!

There is often much discussion about what is the cheapest series to race in on these forums etc... and having raced only ever in Monoposto I can't really comment.

What I will say is that I started racing with a Formula Vauxhall Junior 8v about 4 years ago (which unfortunately then went in Mono 1800 so was a bit out paced!). The car cost under £3.5k, came with more than a complete car in spares less engine, and 20+ wheels with wets and slicks fitted. When we decided to build a Mono 2000 car we sold the car for the same as we paid for it. (I am sure that it is a similar story with other championships such as F.Vee and FF1600.)

Unfortunately the cost of the car is only part of the problem! You need to factor in running costs, which for a season running the F.Vauxhall junior almost amounted to as much as the purchase cost! (A Mono 2000 car even more as I discovered when my engine let go at Oulton Park 2 weeks ago!)There are certain people in Monoposto who will rent you such a car at a modest cost for either a race or a test. If you want the details of such people feel free to PM me and I will put you in touch.

Also don't discount perhaps doing a bit of sprinting or hillclimbing to start with. O.K you won't get any where near the track time, or learn race craft, but the costs of running a car is a tiny fraction of that needed for the circuits, and you can still learn the valuable skills needed to run/drive single seaters. Many club racer cut their teeth in speed events.

[Neil1982]

One example of some one who started in speed events is Andy Priaulx, last seasons ETCC champion and sometimes BMW Williams F1 test driver (Not a bad career!) He was also a British F3 Championship round winner I think?

Another advantage is that you don't have to get your circuit licence. You only have to apply for a National B Speed licence, which I don't think requires an ARDS test, so only cost a fraction of the price! Entry fees are far cheaper also for a sprint or hillclimb rather than a circuit race. One advantage of sprinting over hillclimbing for some one in your situation is that you can learn some of the circuits that you will visit in your circuit racing career. Also there are less banks and trees to hit at a sprint compared to a hillclimb!!

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by andy29uk

Thanks a million for the information everyone.
@runshaw: It's nice to know there's someone out there in the same position as me!

Looks like Vee could be a good idea then. The problem is still money/sponsorship though. At the moment my only thought is just to send out letters... I doubt this is the right way to go about it.

Apart from that, how much do sponsors give out? Surely no one company would pay anything like £10,000 to sponsor you? Though, I suppose it does depend on what series you are racing in and previous results.

Well i tried to get sponsorship for a Formual 3 driver, and a futureracers team. Its the hardest nut to crack in motorsport and does not come easy. You need to spend a lot of time, and show companies that the benefits outweigh the costs. But at Formula Vee you get small local sponsors at best.

If you can get a sponsor ill take my hat off to you.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by runshaw

Erm, have you been reading this thread?? If you look at my comments on here, do any of them suggest that you can get sponsors just like that? NO. If you read them im sure you'll come across me saying that the chances of gaining sponsorship are TINY (especially for someone like me). Do you not think that with me being a wannabe racing driver that I would know that sponsorship is bloody hard to find? I am only 18, but I have followed motorsport since I was 9 and in the past few years I have spoken to numerous race teams, ch'ship coordinaters and team managers on how to get started. Believe me I am certainly a REALIST and to be honest i cannot believe you put 'get real'. I have saved up for 2 years through part time jobs whilst studying at school/college, and managed to save over £2k just to get a test of some sort in the near future. And you tell me to get real? hmmm

Ooops, touched a nerve! Only trying to put you in the picture, REALISTICALLY, based on my experience of funding and running karts and single seaters since you were about 7. Perhaps you're right! Who am I to say?

'bloody hard to find'? If only it were that easy!

[mountainstar]

Just to put my 2 cents in.

When I was 18 I wanted to be a professional race car driver(and still do) just like some of you and had a few grand saved up, so let me pass on my experiences and some stuff I've learned the hard way:

1. Almost no one will sponsor a unknown, you'll have to get experience and a record on your own just for a start. Find some kind of job that will put you in contact with people and/or find a way to get to know local business people. I've done plenty on my own with no help, but many times I've made a connection with someone and they've helped me move forward just because they like me and know I'm a hard worker. It also doesn't hurt to get involved with your local racing club or track and start making those connections. Sometimes just pitching in and helping competitors at the track can get you started. Everyone always appreciates an extra hand packing up for the day.
2. 2k will get you nowhere. A test is nice, but can you afford to go beyond that? Because if you test and then can't continue for say 3 years, will the test mean anything 3 years down the road? Unless you have some experience there is no way you can hop in a Frenault and blow everyone away. I don't care how good you are, there is just no way you can be completely unexperienced and get the most from a FR in just one day. Also you have to take in account all of the other expenses like accomodation, transportation, racing gear, licences, insurance, etc. and believe me it all adds up.
3. As mackmot said, people will take your money and you'll get nothing for it, so watch what you spend it on.
4. Get a well paying job. That may mean going to school at nights. I'd estimate you'll need a regular decent income to keep it going and assuming you are naturally talented you'll need a warchest of at least 20,000 pounds to get enough karting and racing in to learn enough to be a superstar and then move on from there. You can also do what I did and start a small business. I started a small business on ebay at the end of my college years and although I never became rich from it, the money I earned from that business definitely helped me many times over the years. I still operate that business from time to time when I feel like it. And I since I was dealing directly with customers I learned much about how to deal with people, how to communicate better, etc.
5. Take whatever the cost is of something you want to do and double it. Everything is always more expensive than you think.
6. Any budding racers out there with no experience, go and do one of those 1 day formula ford courses. The reality of driving a formula ford is a eye opener, especially when you are unleashed to drive "flat-out". It's always fun to go to racing schools around the world as I have done and there are always a few hot****s but once they hit the track the reality comes home to roost. They've had their brain fried from watching too much tv and playstation and they think you just sit there flicking a few levers and then you cross the finish line and collect the trophy, the check and the babes.
7. If you can't afford to do something well don't do it at all. I once tested a car that was a pile of crap, the team had a poor attitude and there were other issues as well. There was talk before I drove the car of doing some rentadrives for a few rounds. But there was no way after driving that car I was getting back into it or any other of the teams cars. I was smart enough to walk away because motorsport is dangerous enough without making it worse by driving sketchy cars. I have a rule for myself, that if it's not going to be done properly, then I am not going to do it at all.

I was in the exact same position in my late teens, as I had a couple of grand saved up. But once I spent it there was nowhere to go from there as I had no money and the income coming in was not getting me anywhere except surviving university. I decided on a different approach and focused on my job and my business and personal life. With all of the various experiences I've had, I know now that if I make it, it will be because I know how to communicate and present myself and I know how to handle myself in business situations not just because I am talented at driving race cars.

[mountainstar]

Also get Guy Edwards book "Sponsorship and Motor Racing" as it is a good start to learning about how sponsorship works in racing. Taking marketing and advertising classes at uni are always a help too.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by andy29uk

I guess it's just a case of picking a company, sending off a letter or email and seeing if you get anything back. Another thing though - who in the company should it be sent to?

Don't waste your time, you'll need to establish a personal connection with people in companies by knocking on doors or calling them. Writing letters is absolutely useless, they end up in the trash. Please do not waste your time with letters. I was smart enough never to muck around with letters, but I have seen many do so, to their loss. I will also tell you from my marketing experience that sending an unsolicited proposal is a sign of an amateur. Again Guy Edwards book will help you with what you need to know.

Companies are not going to spend squillons for no benefit. Especially if they get a letter like:

"Dear Sirs, I am 18 years old with no motor racing experience but I think I'm pretty fast with the family Ford Focus. I know I'm really good and will be a star. If you sponsor me your companies name will appear on TV! Please enclose a check for 300,000 pounds. Thank you in advance!"

You'll need to find certain benefits to a particular company from being involved in racing and match those to their needs. That's why establishing contact with people is so important to learn everything you need to know. It's better to start locally then with some mega corporation.

Remember Rome was not built in a day and I would equate what you are doing to throwing together a straw hut that will not last rather than a building a solid foundation for yourself brick by brick. Understand I'm not being critical of you and your ambition, I just don't want to see you waste time and money on fruitless endevours.

[Bob Pearson]

It's all too easy to stand on the outside watching the club racing scene and thinking"I can't do that because I have no money". Sure you need some money, it is not a cheap sport. Forget the teams, their function in life is to make a living by providing a service to people with plenty of money to spend. Sponsorship? club racing is full of talented single seater drivers with no sponsorship. If a company had money to spend why would they spend it on someone with no track record?

Ray Dackombe gave you the right direction. When you are on the inside helping an established racer you will see the picture more clearly, you will see what championships suit you more and what cars are the best buys. You will also learn to prepare your car yourself and for someone with limited funds that is the only way to do it.
I started in motorsport in the late 60's helping some guys with a sidecar, I still race single seaters and have never regretted that approach.
I have raced in many single seater formulas and they are all helpful and friendly. Just for the record, BARC Renault costs no more to run in that the other SS Formulas I have been in. Like all other formulas the car to win in costs real money to buy, but there are cheap cars which although not winners will provide someone who can afford no more with a lot of fun.

[runshaw]

Bob, Mountainstar, Ray- that is all excellent advice. The advice you are giving, as you are racing yourself, is invaluable to me. It all makes complete sense and I will be following many of your guidelines in the future, to try and get started. Nice one! (And feel free to keep it all coming if you have any other tips/advice).

[ActiveMS]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Also get Guy Edwards book "Sponsorship and Motor Racing" as it is a good start to learning about how sponsorship works in racing. Taking marketing and advertising classes at uni are always a help too.

Out of interest, I thought I would try and track down a copy.
Amazon only have one listed used at £250!!!!!!

I assume the book is not published anymore.
Anyone got any other ideas?

[Bob Pearson]

If either or both of the two young guys who were interested in starting racing can get to a circuit where BARC Renault is running, you are more than welcome to spend the day with us and see some of how it all works and help us out a bit. We have no mechanic as such, just myself and my son driving the two cars and my wife and Ian's girlfriend. So you can imagine we can always use a little help while at the same time furthering your education.

[ErleMinhinnick]

I agree with most of what's been said. From the outset, decide if you want to be a professional racing driver or just wanna have a go at motor racing. I imagine most on this forum are in the latter category, like me club drivers - amateurs. There must be very few professional racing drivers. Most would be doing other things to do with racing as well - racing schools etc. I suggest as well as sponsorship searching and saving every penny you get involved directly with the sport and the people - networking is a powerful thing - it may put you in contact with the right people. Be prepared also to be attracted to lots of other roles in motor racing along the way which may give you a rewarding direct involvement in motorsport, maybe even change your career aspirations. It may also either give you a chance to drive in a few races or the contacts & bits to help you run your own car on an amateur basis. There are several doing this now including one top race car designer.
So if you wanna be a professional racing driver then dedicate yourself to it but be prepared not to achieve it because most won't. However it could be rewarding in other ways so do not let this put you off.
FYI - AHS (formulavee.co.uk) is recruiting a race mechanic - this is an unglamorous job in an unglamorous (club racing) world but could be a start You'll need a sense of humour.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by runshaw

And i know it is hard as I have said, but I cannot even comprehend not becoming a racing driver one day, thats why I have made sacrifices to save up as much money as I can in order to prepare for a test. There is also no way I would ignore the advice on this thread- I was just simply making a point that I am a realist.

If I was you, I would view this as simply a (very) expensive hobby. £2k won't go very far at all in motorsport - I spent more than that just buying tools, compressors etc to run my car in the first year. Motorsport money is like Monopoly money, you need to spend it hand over fist and try not to notice.

If you set yourself up to being 'unable to comprehend not becoming a racing driver one day', you are 99% certain to be disappointed. You should look at getting somewhere 'serious' as a bonus, not a goal. Most highly talented drivers don't get anywhere if they have no budget. To get somewhere, you will need to have piles of talent, piles of cash and serious connections.

If I was in your shoes, and your age, I think I would take a long look at karting, as you may get most of a season for £2k. This would be invaluable training and will tell you if you've got what it takes without wasting your whole budget on 45 mins behind the wheel of a F.Renault trying to learn a strange circuit. (I once went on a test day that cost me £1k; I had 1 lap in the pouring rain, the session was red-flagged and that was the end of it.) No-one will impress a team on their first ever drive, no matter who they are - it takes experience to go quickly. If you try to drive at 100% on your first outing in a single seater, you will end up in the gravel or worse, then get a bill for £5k.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by ActiveMS

Out of interest, I thought I would try and track down a copy.
Amazon only have one listed used at £250!!!!!!

I assume the book is not published anymore.
Anyone got any other ideas?

It might be worth it if you are really serious and clueless on sponsorship. The book cost $200 when it first came out and I bought mine from a company called cotter communications in North Carolina a few years later. I keep mine under lock and key.

[RAY DACKOMBE]

Hi Guys, I Know Bob And He Is Just The Type Of Person To Get Involved With,you Could Learn A Lot That Said If You Want To Come To A Mono Race Let Me Know,we Also Have People That Would Be Glad Of A Hand

[runshaw]

If you set yourself up to being 'unable to comprehend not becoming a racing driver one day', you are 99% certain to be disappointed. You should look at getting somewhere 'serious' as a bonus, not a goal

Yes you are right. Because of the position I am in, i do see getting somewhere as a bonus. But you say im pretty certain to be dissapointed- this may happen but to be honest I think I will at least be a club racer if nothing else one day! The love I have for motorsport in general is immense (!) and im sure I will be able to race one day when the timing is right and everything falls in to place. The advice on this thread has been great and I will be doing my best to follow the guidelines so hopefully I'll get there one day, but I am a realist.