WTCC Race 9 & 10 - Valencia (SPA), 31st May 2009 - Page 2

Sodemo · 29 May 2009, 07:49 (Ref:2471406)

Once again I think SEAT will totally dominate this weekend.

Pau was BMW's only real chance of any kind of result I think, and a combination of factors took that away from them.

Again, I think the decision to give SEAT back .2 bar of boost is another knee-jerk reaction to their bad performance at Pau (which on paper, SEAT were always going to struggle there given the nature of the track).

helterskelter · 29 May 2009, 11:41 (Ref:2471530)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Once again I think SEAT will totally dominate this weekend.

Pau was BMW's only real chance of any kind of result I think, and a combination of factors took that away from them.

Again, I think the decision to give SEAT back .2 bar of boost is another knee-jerk reaction to their bad performance at Pau (which on paper, SEAT were always going to struggle there given the nature of the track).

I absolutely agree.

Alfa Fan · 29 May 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2471686)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

How much did you see the word SEAT on the previous livery?

Good point....although there not even SEATs corporate colour anymore!

stedevil · 30 May 2009, 00:33 (Ref:2471940)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touring fan01

It just makes no sense to further penalise and slow-down a car that hasn't even won a race!

The reason BMW hasn't won yet this year is entirely down to bad luck and bad teamwork. They could easily have had 4 wins already if things went their way. And even at Pau BMW was clearly faster than the Chevies, it's just almost impossible to pass on that track. Of course 5 of the top 6 BMWs in Pau race 2 spending first lap damaging and taking each other out didnt exactly help...

In any case, it will be interesting to see how the -20kg 2.7bar SEAT performs relative the BMW in Spain. They should look good, but just look what happened to pace predictions at Curitiba and Puebla. For the prediction contest I will probably flip a coin to help me decide.

Hazard · 30 May 2009, 08:12 (Ref:2472007)

SEAT dominant in practice. Hopefully a 0 score in the predictions isn't on the cards for me this weekend

Hazard · 30 May 2009, 11:14 (Ref:2472085)

Not dominant now - but still first.

Monteiro fastest from Farfus then Larini. That's a nice mix now isn't it? Shape of the rest of the season, or just a one off?

Oh, and Lada 23rd mind.

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 12:25 (Ref:2472128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stedevil

The reason BMW hasn't won yet this year is entirely down to bad luck and bad teamwork. They could easily have had 4 wins already if things went their way. And even at Pau BMW was clearly faster than the Chevies, it's just almost impossible to pass on that track. Of course 5 of the top 6 BMWs in Pau race 2 spending first lap damaging and taking each other out didnt exactly help...

In any case, it will be interesting to see how the -20kg 2.7bar SEAT performs relative the BMW in Spain. They should look good, but just look what happened to pace predictions at Curitiba and Puebla. For the prediction contest I will probably flip a coin to help me decide.

But, be honest, were it not for the ridicolous penalty for Priaulx and other 8 drivers, do you think a BMW wouldn't have won? Things can happen at the start, it's called racing accident, but Pau was just insane. 9 drivers overrev while downshifting and Priaulx gets penalized. And, talking about Andy, he was 90rpms above the limit. The next day, Priaulx is slower than he could be to be careful while downshifting, he doesn't do any overreving, and 15 drivers break the rules. Nobody gets penalized! This is not bad luck or bad team work, this is just s**t.

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 12:26 (Ref:2472129)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Not dominant now - but still first.

Monteiro fastest from Farfus then Larini. That's a nice mix now isn't it? Shape of the rest of the season, or just a one off?

Oh, and Lada 23rd mind.

I believe Tiago put new tires on, he improved 1.2s compared to this morning, while Farfus improved by 0.3s.

stedevil · 30 May 2009, 13:42 (Ref:2472176)

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter

But, be honest, were it not for the ridicolous penalty for Priaulx and other 8 drivers, do you think a BMW wouldn't have won?

No, Im pretty confident BMW, quite likely Priaulx, would have won. Both he and Farfus looked really really strong on race pace. The win pretty much fell into Huffs lap when Farfus slid across that oil spec after the silly penalties.

Quote:

This is not bad luck or bad team work, this is just s**t.

Well, my guess, Priaulx was the innocent victim of a FIA/KOS vs Manufacturers "who will blink first" competition. At least that is the feeling I get when reading between the lines.

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2472197)

Seat dominant again, all this mess and still nothing has changed. 6 Seats, 3 Chevys and 1 BMW in Q2 and this is not a particularly slipstream track, so I'm not buying it that it's BMW's fault this time again... This is disgusting.

stedevil · 30 May 2009, 16:04 (Ref:2472223)

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Seat dominant again, all this mess and still nothing has changed. 6 Seats, 3 Chevys and 1 BMW in Q2 and this is not a particularly slipstream track, so I'm not buying it that it's BMW's fault this time again... This is disgusting.

Well, due to last weekends nonsense SEAT TDi are now 20kg underweight.

Hazard · 30 May 2009, 17:43 (Ref:2472249)

Tarquini pole - SEAT Top 4 (Rydell not so good)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy_b

seems like SEAT (finally) have a revised livery? Hope so, current one stinks!

http://media.seat.com/galeria/main.p...e9c5f0d4d41a20

Only Géne has this livery, and on camera, it actually looks terrible. Like there's a blue frame attached to the car. I think the Club SEAT liveries are better - though the old Red Bull liveries were by far better.

**FIRE** · 30 May 2009, 19:01 (Ref:2472266)

Qualifying

Gene & Repsol = Spanish, so a different livery in their home race?

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 21:05 (Ref:2472301)

Wait a minute, let me get the Coronel penalization thing straight: he was underweight during the post-Q2 scrutineering, as they said. Why were only the Q2 times taken away? If he was underweight at the end of Q2, one can hardly believe that he was within the allowed weight in the first quali. So, if I have a car that is lighter than what the rules say it should be and I make it into Q2 and then I put ballast on it so that it's within the rules nobody will get me? OMG, this is such a mess...

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 21:06 (Ref:2472303)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stedevil

Well, due to last weekends nonsense SEAT TDi are now 20kg underweight.

6 tenths are a bit too much. I hope things will change in Brno, it's a BMW track and the German cars should be lighter, given what just happened...

werner · 30 May 2009, 21:08 (Ref:2472305)

Well, they can check you in/after Q1 to I suppose. And in that case you will be at the back of the grid. But they probably don't have enough time to check every car after Q1. Nevertheless your point is valid; you can abuse this regulation.

helterskelter · 30 May 2009, 21:28 (Ref:2472315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

Well, they can check you in/after Q1 to I suppose. And in that case you will be at the back of the grid. But they probably don't have enough time to check every car after Q1. Nevertheless your point is valid; you can abuse this regulation.

Exactly. You just can't check 10 cars in 5 minutes and still give them time to put fuel and new tyres on. They COULD check the weight after Q1, but they never will, because there's not enough time. Another fine mess.

redshoes · 30 May 2009, 21:41 (Ref:2472319)

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Wait a minute, let me get the Coronel penalization thing straight: he was underweight during the post-Q2 scrutineering, as they said. Why were only the Q2 times taken away?

Same reason that Menu only lost his Q2 times at Marrakech.

helterskelter · 31 May 2009, 08:33 (Ref:2472495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Same reason that Menu only lost his Q2 times at Marrakech.

Well, no, in Marrakech Alain Menu's car failed to restart after the weight checks, which is totally different.

redshoes · 31 May 2009, 08:58 (Ref:2472507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Well, no, in Marrakech Alain Menu's car failed to restart after the weight checks, which is totally different.

What I meant was that he only lost his times from Q2. Normally any failure during the weighbridge checks (weight / ride height / re-start) mean you lose all times up to that point, i.e. including Q1 times.

The punishment is consistent.

werner · 31 May 2009, 09:57 (Ref:2472537)

I can remember that Coronel once also had the problem that his car did not restart after a check. First he was demoted to the last place. But he appealed and in the end only got a 5 or 10 place penalty, because a race before another driver (Huff?) got the same treatment.
Unfortunately I don't remember what race it was.

helterskelter · 31 May 2009, 10:16 (Ref:2472553)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

What I meant was that he only lost his times from Q2. Normally any failure during the weighbridge checks (weight / ride height / re-start) mean you lose all times up to that point, i.e. including Q1 times.

The punishment is consistent.

Sure. The thing is, if the car fails to restart I don't care in terms of performance of the car. If the car is underweight, then it's something bigger. Those sporting rules should be rethought of.

Hazard · 31 May 2009, 10:47 (Ref:2472574)

Well, anyway - race #1 about to get underway. The tennis (yes, Andy Murray himself) has been shifted off for this

Hazard · 31 May 2009, 11:13 (Ref:2472588)

Wow. Yvan wins...quite a few clashes in the midfield.

Great recovery by Farfus!

WTCC probably needs to think about borrowing the BTCC reverse grid via a hat idea.

werner · 31 May 2009, 11:28 (Ref:2472599)

Maybe, although I don't think Coronel really let himself drop back. I think he would not want to risk his indy-win by fighting of Priaulx to hard.
Nevertheless he might have fought harder if being overtaken meant he might lose a front-end start.

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