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17 Nov 2017, 08:49 (Ref:3780918) | #26 | ||
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
17 Nov 2017, 12:39 (Ref:3780968) | #27 | |
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17 Nov 2017, 16:27 (Ref:3781026) | #28 | |
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I don't have time to research all of the specifics to make it sound good, but in general...
* Around 2008 +/- Budget caps are put in place and Ferrari's veto is struck down in the courts. * Ferrari and a few other manufactures leave the sport (somewhat in disagreement with caps, and loss of veto, some due to recession and it is just good timing to get out) * Ferrari and someone else (maybe Renault in a post crash gate scenario) create a breakaway series. * Cosworth and at least one other independent engine supplier create customer engines for the main F1 series * Teams like McLaren, Williams, etc. become backbone for F1 which becomes successful post large manufacture involvement. * Budget caps work. Smaller teams join and survive. * Break away manufacture series eventually fails due to various problems (they fight amongst themselves on how to run the series, small number of teams, top drivers don't migrate to the series, races don't actually generate good racing, etc.) Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
18 Nov 2017, 01:03 (Ref:3781152) | #29 | ||
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+ * Manufacturers gradually come crawling back into F1 to gain exposure to the good racing and healthy fan base. |
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19 Nov 2017, 06:37 (Ref:3781438) | #30 | ||
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I still don't see theres enough room on an F1 car to have sliding doors....
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22 Nov 2018, 12:51 (Ref:3864986) | #31 | ||
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I'm going back to the mid-late 70's...
Having completed a successful test at Paul Ricard, Embassy Hill racing return home a day earlier than planned in Nov 1975.. The team goes on to record it's first victories in 1976 with Tony Brise continually challenging Lauda and Hunt through the season. Both Ferrari and McLaren go on record as saying the Hill team is now a clear threat for title honours in 1977. Tom Pryce makes a brilliant comeback drive at Kyalami '77 to net a podium and is a constant nuisance to Ferrari, McLaren for the rest of the year. Pryce and Brise engage in some of the best dices seen in F1 in their battle to be best of the rest. There is a massive party as Pryce, Brise and Hunt fill the podium at the British GP. Debutant. Gilles Villeneuve challenges in a 3rd McLaren and after continuing to impress in selected races for the rest of the year, is signed full time alongside Hunt for 1978.... After the strange 'nearly' swap with Ronnie Peterson and in 1976, Lotus once again make it known they are interested in signing Pryce for 1978 and the deal is announced in October where he will be number 2 for the season to.... Ronnie Peterson. Mario decides to join Ferrari alongside Lauda as joint No.1 much to Niki's chagrin Alan Jones replaces Pryce at Shadow for '78 with Reutemann and Regazzoni lining up for Williams, although both on 1 year deals... The opening round of 1978 is a belter........ Anyone wish to take over from here? |
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22 Nov 2018, 13:17 (Ref:3864995) | #32 | |
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It would have been very interesting to see how that new Hill car went in 76. Could so easily have been the making of Brise.
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
8 Dec 2018, 11:52 (Ref:3868730) | #33 | ||
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8 Dec 2018, 14:28 (Ref:3868754) | #34 | |
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I don’t know if Pryce threw it off that many times. Certainly drivers in less than perfect cars tend to give it more
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
13 Dec 2018, 16:19 (Ref:3869957) | #35 | |
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Alesi honouring his pre-contract with Williams for 91 would have been interesting;
Mansell and Hill would never have been World Champions as neither would have driven for Williams (in the 90's). Patrese would have been retained until they could get Senna in for likely 93 if not 92. Alesi would be winning races so France happy and no need for Prost - who probably would have gone back to McLaren or retired. Senna would likely not have been killed in '94 - he would have had input into the FW16 and it be more to his liking and less nervous at the start of 94. Senna would have been a 5 to 9 time champ with potentially close to 100 victories - conceivably he could have won 92 - 97 inclusive assuming the passion remained. He would have been 38 in '97 so not old. He could go to Ferrari then as he always wanted to. And the Ferrari's from 97 onwards weren't bad.... I'm assuming Alesi would have won races but not Championships if paired with Senna. The 91 Williams took a while to get going and finished weakly v the McLaren. JV may still have come in for 96 but be thrashed by Senna and disappear before BAR arrived... |
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All the same, isn't there a grand oul stretch in the evenings... |
13 Dec 2018, 22:56 (Ref:3870083) | #36 | ||
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Like it Graz!!
I reckon Alesi had it in him if he had a reliable quick car. In addition to Senna, he would probably have been up against Herbert and Donnelly in '91 & '92 had both those drivers careers proceeded as looked clear prior to their accidents. Herbert would probably be in the other Williams, Senna at Mclaren, Donnelly possibly in one of the Benetton's with his Camel backing. Going back another 10 years. What could have happened if Gilles moved to McLaren in 1983 as had been rumoured? I think that be would have left after the Pironi nonsense anyway. Mind you had he lived and stayed and Pironi had not been injured going on to win the '82 title, we might have seen a brilliant scrap for the '83 title between them as i am convinced that the '83 Ferrari was the best car evidenced by the constructors title. |
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14 Dec 2018, 15:00 (Ref:3870234) | #37 | |
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I remember Autosport once did a what if story about Gilles going to McLaren for 83. Certainly Villeneuve could so easily have been champ in 82 and would have probably added to more in his TAG Porsche McLaren
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20 Dec 2018, 10:13 (Ref:3871602) | #38 | |||
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Then again, Gilles would probably have been the one replacing Watson and not Prost? |
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20 Dec 2018, 10:27 (Ref:3871604) | #39 | |
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Probably. Niki would no doubt have stayed, so Wattie would have to have left. Autosport reckoned Prost would have replaced Our Nige at Lotus after being dropped by Renault
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
20 Dec 2018, 11:01 (Ref:3871609) | #40 | |||
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Maybe they would have got extra Regie support if he went there though? Mansell would have gone to where in '84, presumably to Williams a year earlier than he actually did? |
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20 Dec 2018, 14:20 (Ref:3871643) | #41 | |
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No, he just was too naive believing Pironi would actually follow team orders.
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20 Dec 2018, 22:18 (Ref:3871707) | #42 | ||
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I don’t know where you got the idea that Marlboro replacing JPS, as Prost was never Marlboro backed AFAIK Mansell probably would have been left on the sidelines, Peter Warr would have been more than happy to drop him |
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21 Dec 2018, 15:07 (Ref:3871823) | #43 | |||
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He was/had become their top driver in F1 by 1983 alongside Rosberg even though Wattie and Lauda were in their 'official' team at McLaren. What would have been interesting is how the tobacco money politics would have played out if he did join Lotus who had been JPS's team for yonks. Would Marlboro have insisted on continuing to sponsor him and if so how would Lotus have handled JPS who were their major sponsor. Mind you Senna had Marlboro in '84 and then joined Lotus so you're probably right, it wouldn't have mattered! |
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21 Dec 2018, 15:10 (Ref:3871824) | #44 | |||
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Prost was a level above Didier in talent and calculating!. Gilles and Prost were great mates but Prost was always a good player behind the scenes! |
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22 Dec 2018, 15:20 (Ref:3871985) | #45 | |
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Pironi, certainly he seemed to be on top of the world when he had his accident. Who knows what he could have achieved
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4 Jan 2019, 18:47 (Ref:3874024) | #46 | ||
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Pironi was one of my fav drivers when I was little but ironically that's before I found out about Gilles who quickly gaimed hero status for me when I read up on his exploits.
Like you say Didier was on the up in '82. He was certainly getting closer to GV. I guess we'll never know if Gilles could have beaten him to the title that year but I am convinced that either of them would have won it in '83 because the C2B and C3 were arguably better chassis than the Renault and Brabhams. Good enough to take the constructors even if the actual '83 drivers weren't on Piquet or Prost level. |
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5 Jan 2019, 10:50 (Ref:3874121) | #47 | |
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something i’ve been thinking about... let’s say senna had lived. and let’s say he found himself in an alonso type situation, where he’s stuck driving a car that’s more useful as an ornament.
how would he have handled it, do we think? i can’t work out if he’d have done an alonso and burnt bridges left right and centre, thrown public wobblies and stuck it out until he lost patience or just straight walked out and retired mid-season? |
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5 Jan 2019, 11:07 (Ref:3874125) | #48 | |
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Well it's a fair bet Senna wouldn't have thought his F1 career complete without going to Ferrari, no matter what it's competiveness
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
5 Jan 2019, 11:45 (Ref:3874138) | #49 | ||
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I think he'd have just walked, personally. I'm not so certain that Senna was that keen on driving a Ferrari - he just wanted to drive whatever the best car was at the time. He was driven to win, not by the emotion of sitting in a red car..... Having said that, I firmly believe that he would have made the Williams a Schumacher-beater by mid season.....
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280 days...... |
5 Jan 2019, 12:49 (Ref:3874143) | #50 | |
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According to those close to him, Senna did have a desire to drive for Ferrari. So it would probably have happened and the Ferrari fans would have welcomed him
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
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