Drivers being sissies?

[Marbot]

When all the risks are removed it becomes nothing more than a rollercoaster ride.

[freud]

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

In my opinion safety should be king always in F1 and all motorsports. So if changes are made to this track to make it safer -- Great!!!

Yes and I hope that happens at american IRL and CART. Their current rules are better suited for animal racing than human.

[Alwaysfirst]

By all means use asphalt run off, just have a few metres of gravel or grass before the asphalt so that mistakes are punished. I'm fed up of seeing drivers completly cocking it up but just driving away no problem. I don't want to see drivers killed or injured, just pressurised more. And if they do use asphalt then don't extend the run off any more. Not every corner needs football field sized run off. SO safety yes, just don't let them keep getting away with mistakes.

And it is interesting that no driver moans on the ladder up to F1, just after they've been there for a couple of years...

[JeremySmith]

Fire all of them I say Those blagards!

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Very easy to sit back and watch the telly and then deem the drivers "sissies." Very different to strap your butt into a vehicle that can reach ridiculous velocities and evaluate the safety features from that perspective.

Have the tracks been sanitized to an extent? Yes. Are the cars going at speeds through the corners where an incident can cause lethal injuries? Absolutely. I don't ever want to see another racing death and if it means moving a wall back a few feet or dropping some tarmac in place of gravel, than I say do it.

It is easy to sit back and say: "Well, in the old days there was no traction control and blah, blah, blah" but how quickly it is forgotten that in the old days many a car had a tarp thrown over top when there was no need to extricate the driver?

DC is not lacking in courage, if he supports tarmac and stands for some changes than my money is on those changes being necessary.

This isn't bullfighting kids. You don't need to risk death to "prove" this is a sport. You want blood, play rugby.

I wouldn't say the drivers are being 'cissies' as such, but they are certainley not doing their sport any favours by pushing for circuit changes rather than car changes......prima donnas is certainley a better description than a cissie.

There seems to be a never ending cycle of attempts to slow the cars down by reasons other than the crucial aero's problems, and then sanitise the tracks because of safety....err....why because the aeros are allowing the high corner speeds.......
Change the bloody cars.....not the circuits

There's nothing wrong with any of the circuits, hardy any needed changing in terms of layout, only run-off, barriers etc type of changes for those safety reasons.

F1 really is a joke now, for all sorts of reasons....might as well just build a big Scalextric track in the paddock for them to use instead....

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Very easy to sit back and watch the telly and then deem the drivers "sissies." Very different to strap your butt into a vehicle that can reach ridiculous velocities and evaluate the safety features from that perspective.

Have the tracks been sanitized to an extent? Yes. Are the cars going at speeds through the corners where an incident can cause lethal injuries? Absolutely. I don't ever want to see another racing death and if it means moving a wall back a few feet or dropping some tarmac in place of gravel, than I say do it.

It is easy to sit back and say: "Well, in the old days there was no traction control and blah, blah, blah" but how quickly it is forgotten that in the old days many a car had a tarp thrown over top when there was no need to extricate the driver?

DC is not lacking in courage, if he supports tarmac and stands for some changes than my money is on those changes being necessary.

This isn't bullfighting kids. You don't need to risk death to "prove" this is a sport. You want blood, play rugby.

Do these guys still get a kick from racing cars at a speed that may be dangerous if they crash or are they just doing a job? If the latter, then the passionate ones about this sport are in the grandstands and have all the right to call drivers sissies.

Risk of death, being at the knife-edge of success or disaster is what made older drivers heroes. Now they're just sportsmen with traction-controlled cars.

I'm not saying I want drivers dying. I'm just saying that if you don't feel safe enough in F1, then I don't know what these drivers are doing racing cars. F1 is the safest championship... They should try racing on an oval, or in a world rally car with walls and trees very close. Would they want trees removed as well?

I'm sorry to some but I'm far closer to Dale Earnhardt than Mark Webber here.

[Knowlesy]

I just think it's a lame attitude.

Of course, we all want safety. But for gods sake, it's hard to envisage Monza much safer!

Add tarmac run-offs and such rubbish and you lose a part of what Monza is all about. It is a traditional venue that has the danger element, the speed and that is why I look forward to it every year.

Please, just leave it alone!

[Rick]

haven't read so much tripe in a long time - bring back the good ol' days when a few get killed occasionally. All started when that girl Jackie Stewart wanted to make places safer.

gimme a break!!

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Rick

haven't read so much tripe in a long time - bring back the good ol' days when a few get killed occasionally.

Err, no, let's not please.

Safety has to be championed, it is just getting the balance right IMO. We don't want drivers killed ever BUT we don't want things sanitised to within an inch of their lives.

So I disagree with the Monza complaints, but I don't by any means want them to line the circuit with jagged rocks and steel spikes.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Err, no, let's not please.

Safety has to be championed, it is just getting the balance right IMO. We don't want drivers killed ever BUT we don't want things sanitised to within an inch of their lives.

So I disagree with the Monza complaints, but I don't by any means want them to line the circuit with jagged rocks and steel spikes.

So to paraphrase, no deaths but the odd maiming is ok.

[Knowlesy]

Well you will get freak events where that occurs.

An ideal F1 world would be one full of danger and peril but with absolutely no deaths or injuries. It's an impossible balance.

Monza has it right now for example. No deaths (apart from a freak marshall death) and it is still a quite dangerous track. You don't want to overstep the balance on either side.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Monza has it right now for example. No deaths (apart from a freak marshall death) and it is still a quite dangerous track. You don't want to overstep the balance on either side.

What about Antonio Ascari?

The whole thing IMO isn't so much about danger and stuff but drivers are there and they think that everything should be made to them to make them feel as comfortable as possible. In feeder series, there don't seem to be as much whinging, everyone wants to do their best to get up the ladder, if they whinged, people would just say that they are pussies and have no place in F1.(hehe, if they whinged as hell then F1 really IS their place)

[Knowlesy]

I was talking recently.

[Jordi]

People so miss the point here. You think safety is alright as it is and they are already accusing people like me or knowlesy of wanting to see death and injury.

Do you think that Jacques Villeneuve wanted to get injured when he says that the cars are too safe?

Disgusting.

[Eff One]

Originally Posted by Jordi

People so miss the point here. You think safety is alright as it is and they are already accusing people like me or knowlesy of wanting to see death and injury.

Do you think that Jacques Villeneuve wanted to get injured when he says that the cars are too safe?

Disgusting.

Well said.

Just becuase an individual thinks current safety standards in motorsport, in this case, F1 is more than adequate (and it is) does not mean that person wants to see a driver fatality.

Every racing driver chooses their career on the understanding that death may choose him/her and danger is an inherent part of motor racing. The day it isn't is when it no longer is motor racing.

[Nado]

Originally Posted by Jordi

People so miss the point here. You think safety is alright as it is and they are already accusing people like me or knowlesy of wanting to see death and injury.

Do you think that Jacques Villeneuve wanted to get injured when he says that the cars are too safe?

Disgusting.

I don't think anyone is accusing you, look at what Rick posted up there.

[Eff One]

Originally Posted by Nado

I don't think anyone is accusing you, look at what Rick posted up there.

Actually I think that post was 100% sarcasm.

[Nado]

Originally Posted by Eff One

Actually I think that post was 100% sarcasm.

I dunno, if it is then I apologise, but there's absolutely no hint of sacarsm there, his closing argument even suggests (to me anyway) that he is serious.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Do tey want tarmac everywhere?

I have a solution for it :

- scrap the first chicane (just put a big layer of tarmac there);
- put a load of tarmac on the De La Rogia chicane... hey, let them go through it without lifting;
- do likewise at Ascari

Hey, that would be Monza 1969 all over again

[JohnSSC]

When I raced (not F1, believe me!) the last thing I wanted was to die, be hurt, see anyone else die or get hurt. What a rush it was to hang the car out to the limit of it and/or my limited ability.

For those of you who want to see "risk" as if driving a 700 hp car at 218 mph is not enough, perhaps they could drop random 10 ton blocks of concrete on them as they drive by.

Further, please do not confuse my support of sensible changes - including changing the cars to slow them down - with thinking that anyone with an opposing viewpoint wants to see the "the big one."

[Jordi]

It's one thing to drive at 220 mph in an airfield an another very different to do it with walls around. If it can be done in America in ovals why should the best cars with the best drivers have it any easier?

[JohnSSC]

You are comparing apples and oranges, Jordi. Stock cars weigh 3500 lbs and can absorb much more punishment. Further, on most ovals, the banking holds cars in and the walls (with or without Safer Barriers) are angled to diminish the impact. That being said I think on a pound-for-pound basis, stock cars still have a long way to go compared to ChampCars/IRL cars and their F1 cousins.

Champ/IRL cars are also heavier in all the right places for the type of racing they do.

FWIW, I think that the cars need to retain the same structure but be slowed down, especially in the corners. I think the drivers know they really have no control over the rules and want to make the tracks that much safer as that seems mor realistic.

With all the changes to slow F1 cars down, they aren't very slow these days compared to the past, are they?

[Jordi]

I was referring to IRL... NASCAR is a different beast.

But yeah, speeds have not been slowed down by any kind... I agree that cars should be changed, instead of tracks. Standard wings to slow cars down in ovals were implemented in CART in the late 90s... Perhaps a maximum downforce limit should be applied so as to limit cornering speed?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Champ/IRL cars are also heavier in all the right places for the type of racing they do.

I guess that's the main difference.

[Purist]

There's just one problem with trying to say oval racing is different. The F1 cars have been going through an oval turn at very nearly the speed of the IRL cars for 7 seasons now.

In some places, fine, put the tarmac right there (Adelaide Hairpin at Magny Cours, hairpins at Shanghai and Hockenheim, etc.), and let the guys who get it a little wrong on the brakes have a chance. However, if you screw up in Eau Rouge, or Turn 8 at Istanbul, your race should be done. Think about it this way. If the tracks are more challenging (more difficult corners and less margin for error), the drivers will have to improve if they want to continue to be successful. Also, most crashes (not all, but a majority), at some level, are due to driver error. Thus, having more challenging circuits, which creates a crop of more skilled drivers, makes the racing safer. Correct?