2023 Rallying

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Roads with snow and ice?

From what I've read it looks like there's not much snow about but they're expecting ice. Similar to last year I think - the ice crews will be passing information to the drivers before they go into each stage but it could be very different from the recce.

[BertMk2]

Ogier quickest in shakedown - what do you think? Another home win?

[BertMk2]

Ogier leading the way (not a surprise!), he's built quite a big lead already. At the other end of the scale the timings are being propped up by 2 of the Pumas - Loubet and Serderidis way off the pace - I'm assuming they've had problems. I also hadn't realised that Gilsoul was co-driving for Loubet - is that a new pairing?

Edit: Power steering failure for Loubet, no midday service so he's had to run without it.

[justracing]

Elfyn always seems to have the bad luck, rear puncture dropping him 40 secs but he's chipping away at the deficit again. Tanak, Neuville looking strong and Katsu is showing good pace but none are a match for Seb even with hybrid boost problems. With the stages so clear and dry the smallest error or problem will have a big knock on effect, tomorrow will be the test to see if Elfyn can regain some lost places, he"s fast and a stage winner already.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

...I'll try and find what coverage I can elsewhere.

ITV4, Tuesday 8pm

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

ITV4, Tuesday 8pm

Thanks - the daily highlights are also on Red Bull TV so I've been watching there. Very unusual conditions for the Monte, mostly dry tarmac this year with only small spots of ice. Looks like there have been the usual Monte shenanigans though with 'fans' shovelling ice onto the stage ahead of Neuville coming through (footage available on social media). There's history for this over the years with the fans favouring the local drivers and chucking snow and ice in front of the other drivers, it doesn't sit well with me though.

Another win for Ogier though - from shakedown on Thursday it didn't look like anyone else had a chance did it? The Toyotas looked the quickest (as expected), the Pumas still aren't reliable enough with power steering issues across the weekend. Lappi looked like he didn't have much confidence in the Hyundai, he seemed strangely subdued all weekend.

[ArnageWRC]

Ogier wins, but Rovanpera wins the 'WRC title' class with a 2nd place, and PowerStage win......A good start to his title defence.
Tanak hamstrung by unreliability which isn't a great start. Neuville a decent 3rd, and Elfyn was right there before a puncture......

However, I thought it was a pretty uneventful rally....which doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

However, I thought it was a pretty uneventful rally....which doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

Ogier dominated at the front and his lead was never really under threat. Behind him it was all a case of who had mechanical or tyre problems really wasn't it? I guess the conditions played into that slightly - usually the Monte is a real mixed bag and people can make a huge difference with tyre choice or just having 'feel' for the dodgy conditions. With it being mostly dry tarmac that element was missing.

[ArnageWRC]

What should be a great sport is continually hamstrung by poor promotion, uninspired events, and pretty average TV coverage.....

Nothing will change until those in charge do something different......

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

However, I thought it was a pretty uneventful rally....which doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

Yeah, did seem to be a fairly uneventful rally. I was hoping that Tanak could push harder, but issues for him. Hopefully his pace in the power stage is an indication that he (and M-Sport) can at least challenge for event wins this year.

Great form from Kalle and, perhaps unsurprisingly, a flawless drive from Ogier.

[tux]

I understand team orders and why Hyundai told Breen to let Neuville pass him but as a "casual" WRC fan i feel like i dont want to watch another WRC rally...

[tux]

Originally Posted by tux

I understand team orders and why Hyundai told Breen to let Neuville pass him but as a "casual" WRC fan i feel like i dont want to watch another WRC rally...

After all that Neuville still screwed it up.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tux

I understand team orders and why Hyundai told Breen to let Neuville pass him but as a "casual" WRC fan i feel like i dont want to watch another WRC rally...

Team orders have been a part of the sport for years (remember the McRae/Sainz fiasco?). It's not pretty but understandable - after all Breen isn't doing a full season so it made sense to swap him and Neuville.

Sweden is my favourite event of the season - the footage always looks spectacular and the stages in the dark are incredible to watch from the onboard cameras. There were a few tyre problems over the weekend with tyres delaminating - I can't remember seeing that before in Sweden. Given that the conditions looked pretty good (frozen base layer) I was surprised it happened, I would have thought that would be more likely if the surface was cutting up more.

Good to see Tanak and M-Sport get a win again, hopefully they'll be at least competitive on other events. The Toyotas looked strangely off the pace - neither Rovanpera or Evans looked entirely happy with their car, Katsuta was having a good rally until he rolled it. Hyundai again seemed a bit inconsistent - Breen looked to have nailed the setup, Lappi was quick when the car was working to his liking (and wasunlucky with the tyre problem), Neuville looked to be struggling with the setup on his car all weekend but with the teams help looked like grabbing second only to screw it up with a terrible final stage.

[S griffin]

Great win from Tanak, Ford/Msport are a title contender this year. Breen looked strong, shame he had to follow team orders, but it makes sense since he's only a part timer. And yes, Toyota's lack of pace was strange

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Great win from Tanak, Ford/Msport are a title contender this year.

I'm not sure the Puma will be as competitive on other events - Sweden is a bit of an oddity given its unique surface/tyre combination. I'd also expect the Toyotas to be back where we'd expect them to be on the upcoming events. I can't see M-Sport challenging in the manufacturers championship as they don't have the driver depth that Toyota and Hyundai do.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by tux

After all that Neuville still screwed it up.

I think Neuville is overdue replacement as the number 1 at Hyundai. I know he hasn't always has the car underneath him, but I think he is too inconsistent to ever become Championship.

Originally Posted by S griffin

Great win from Tanak, Ford/Msport are a title contender this year.

I really hope you are right, but I think it might be a bit early to consider him a title contender.

Fantastic drive from Breen, shame he couldn't hang on to the lead, but still a brilliant way to come back from a dreadful 2022.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Fantastic drive from Breen, shame he couldn't hang on to the lead, but still a brilliant way to come back from a dreadful 2022.

I bet that must have smarted a bit giving up the lead, it really is good to see him up the pointy end, love the enthusiasm and excitement he shows competing at this level compared to the bland PC responses from other competitors.

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by tux

I understand team orders and why Hyundai told Breen to let Neuville pass him but as a "casual" WRC fan i feel like i dont want to watch another WRC rally...

I think the issue was it's only the second round of the championship - and they're already implementing teams orders. It's not a good look.

One can understand it in the second half of the season when the championship is on the line....though I recall last year when they didn't swap Tanak/Neuville when Ott still had an outside chance of the title.

The irony is Neuville made a mistake, and it didn't matter - and tells you why he can't win a WRC title.....

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

I think the issue was it's only the second round of the championship - and they're already implementing teams orders. It's not a good look.

One can understand it in the second half of the season when the championship is on the line.

It makes sense though in so much as Breen isn't doing a full season, so there's no way he'll be in the championship fight anyway.

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

....though I recall last year when they didn't swap Tanak/Neuville when Ott still had an outside chance of the title.

I assume Neuville has something in his contract that says he's the number 1 driver? Maybe also part of the reason Tanak left the team - if he knew that Neuville would always be favoured he decided he'd be better off elsewhere.

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

The irony is Neuville made a mistake, and it didn't matter - and tells you why he can't win a WRC title.....

Agreed, Neuville is undeniably quick but he's also error prone, he drops too many points through mistakes on his part. On weekends where the Hyundai looks to be the best car he needs to be making the most of the points on offer (especially when the team are trying to hand them to him on a plate).

[S griffin]

Neuville arguably should have had a title or two, but threw away a good few chances. Particularly in 2018

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Neuville arguably should have had a title or two, but threw away a good few chances. Particularly in 2018

He was leading the first two events of 2017, and comfortably.......and didn't win either. Two silly mistakes lost him both events......and the championship.

[S griffin]

Considering he was still in contention with a few rounds to go, yes he threw away quite a good opportunity there

[cg7aa]

Rewinding back to the Monte...

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

...I thought it was a pretty uneventful rally...

I think a few folks on here have already expressed similar sentiments as the one above from Arnage. I meant to chime in at the time to add that I was actually bored watching the highlights on UK TV. I can't recall the last time that happened, I would probably have to go back to the days when Motors TV had coverage and it seemed like they only had one camera at the finish line.

The production of the highlights is obviously much improved but how can such a spectacular sport (let's put aside it's long term unsustainability due to low manufacturer count) be made to look so ordinary by the official highlights packages?

When I first discovered the phenomenon of 'pure sounds' WRC fan-recorded and edited footage years ago, I was blown away and continue to be blown away by just how dynamic the action is. When I first got into the WRC in the Group A era in the late 90s and early 2000s as a youngster, I used to watch 30 minute highlights on BBC 2 Top Gear in the UK and even the most predictable events were made to look good by virtue of how the cars were filmed and presented. They managed to cram a lot of spectacular action into just 30mins with no hysterical commentary, just measured, calm, and informative summaries.

I've noticed people have started commenting about how much more spectacular the fan footage on youtube is. Are the official highlights producers that hamstrung with what they have to work with or are they just completely lacking in imagination?

I appreciate the fan footage is complimentary and it's produced to different timescales but it's still so much more interesting to see even if it gets repetitive. I found this Monte footage and after the first minute I was just thrilled to bits like I was to be 20-odd years ago, it reminded me just how incredible the cars and drivers are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKGMWONJbEY

It made me rethink my initial feeling that this year's event was dull! It wasn't at all dull if you were stage-side watching the cars come by. TV needs to do a much better job, maybe they are doing a good job but it's behind a paywall?

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by justracing

... love the enthusiasm and excitement he shows competing at this level compared to the bland PC responses from other competitors.

Yes, that was fantastic. Who knows what went wrong at MSport last year! Anyway, while I broadly agree that a lot of the other driver comments are just uninteresting, we need to keep in mind English is the second langauge (and probably the third) for a lot of the drivers.

[NaBUru38]

How about this highlights video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG2Ws7GMU2o

It doesn't tell a story or presents sponsors, it's just racing.