|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
22 Nov 2021, 02:11 (Ref:4084887) | #26 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,257
|
Good racing at SMP this weekend. Tho Im concerned there are a lot of red and yellows in the category. Are the cars just too hard to drive or do they become impossible to catch once they break. Too much engine for the suspension or downforce. Or is it just a lot of car for (mostly) inexperienced drivers.
|
||
__________________
Bathurst 1977, best day of my childhood Worst thing ever to happen to Ford Aust Motorsport. |
22 Nov 2021, 08:32 (Ref:4084909) | #27 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 824
|
I don't think the cars are too hard to drive. Young drivers seem to be able to match it with experienced aces. However I think the cars need a bit of fine tuning whether that is tyres or aero I don't know. personally I would like to see them go the speeds they should be capable of. I know they are what they are and are meant to be but when we see these powerful V8 cars doing 1 min 26s around SMP it seems slow when FH cars were doing 1 min 22s twenty years ago.
|
||
|
22 Nov 2021, 09:00 (Ref:4084913) | #28 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,502
|
It seems the cars in general suffered several suspension failures over the SMP weekend.....
Category powerbroker / manager Barry Rogers spoke of failures due to "unusual circumstances". He spoke of repeated use of the track of late by Supercars had created ruts on the edges of run off kerbs, which when S5000 dropped into them wishbones got bent. He did say it was under control and at Bathurst was confident there would be no issue. Full story: https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/22...r-at-bathurst/ |
||
|
23 Nov 2021, 13:07 (Ref:4085104) | #29 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 506
|
Quote:
More speed = more cost. |
||
|
26 Nov 2021, 03:57 (Ref:4085493) | #30 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,549
|
Bathurst
A round up of the event next week, entrants & TV coverage:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/26...-for-bathurst/ Good luck all. I wont miss a session. |
||
__________________
more torque than a climate change conference |
26 Nov 2021, 09:07 (Ref:4085512) | #31 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,502
|
Quote:
Also the one support event, along with TCM that I am really/most looking forward to. Cant wait. |
|||
|
29 Nov 2021, 23:57 (Ref:4085947) | #32 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,725
|
Great to see big fast open wheeler s on the Mountain again. How many years is it that we last had anything quicker than F3s?
Hope they have the rear wishbone problem sorted because I think there are places round Mt Panorama that could cause the same sort of stresses they suffered at SMSP with potentially more serious results. Bring it on, hopefully it is the start of a fan conversion to real racecars. |
||
__________________
Geting old is mandatory, acting old is optional. |
30 Nov 2021, 06:35 (Ref:4085963) | #33 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,502
|
Quote:
As to the times, already very close to breaking the 2 minute mark. Mawson was quickest on a 2:00.8702s today, just shy of the official Bathurst lap record, a 1:59.2910s, set by Christopher Mies during the 2018 Challenge Bathurst aboard an Audi R8 LMS GT3. https://youtu.be/6A5Z9q4flm0 Edit: that is quicker than the F3 lap record by a couple of seconds give or take.... that was set by Simon Hodge in a Mygale M11-Mercedes-Benz with a 2:02.6701 back in April 2014 Last edited by E.B; 30 Nov 2021 at 06:45. Reason: Added F3 lap record for open wheeler reference |
|||
|
30 Nov 2021, 08:09 (Ref:4085970) | #34 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,502
|
Just read confirmation that the S5000's are not running at full power this weekend. A shame that we will not see them at their best, but the ruling in an FIA one aligned to the circuit FIA grade.
They have been electronically limited to reduce power from their usual c.560bhp. The change was in order to meet a weight/power ratio for an FIA Grade 3 circuit, as Mount Panorama is. In standard trim, the cars have a weight/power ratio of around 1.51, well below the stipulation of “between 2 and 3 kg/hp” for ‘Category II automobiles’ in Appendix O of the International Sporting Code. A cut of 85bhp bring the figure close to 2, maybe a bit of ballast to increase weight has been incurred to meet the 2 stipulation. The reduction means the cars are topping out at about 280 kp instead of the original anticipated 300kph. It seems the choice was a black white meet the figure or th category cannot run. Very sad really, but rules are rules, and if their inclusion was conditional not much choice in the matter. Full story. https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/11/30...-for-bathurst/ |
||
|
30 Nov 2021, 08:33 (Ref:4085972) | #35 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 306
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
30 Nov 2021, 08:52 (Ref:4085974) | #36 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,502
|
Quote:
Having said that they looked borderline dangerous and close to failure.. |
|||
|
30 Nov 2021, 18:52 (Ref:4086042) | #37 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,660
|
Quote:
I can't help the feeling that the adjustment should have happened much earlier but the focus on it was sharpened due to them running at Bathurst. For some time now, single-seaters have been permitted to run at Bathurst on a case-by-case basis, rather than having open slather. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
1 Dec 2021, 15:51 (Ref:4086158) | #38 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,017
|
Quote:
Edit -- Hmm, despite the MotoGP, Phillip Island is Grade 3, however Google suggests both The Bend and Eastern Creek are Grade 2. Given what was done with Zandvoort, it doesn't seem like too much would be required to bring The Bend and Eastern Creek to Grade 1 Formula One spec, maybe just some more tarmac run-off areas? Quote:
At least on those Grade 2 circuit, the S5000 should at least be as close to Formula 2 level as possible IMO. You can always put the shorter undertrays and small front wings back on for lower grade circuits. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 1 Dec 2021 at 15:57. |
|||
|
1 Dec 2021, 15:55 (Ref:4086159) | #39 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,549
|
Quote:
Albert Park Circuit Grade 2: Surfers Paradise Street Circuit Sydney Motorsport Park The Bend Motorsport Park Grade 3: Adelaide Street Circuit Hidden Valley Raceway Mount Panorama Circuit Newcastle Street Circuit Phillip Island Grand Prix Circuit Queensland Raceway Symmons Plains Raceway Townsville Street Circuit Wanneroo Raceway Winton Motor Raceway |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
1 Dec 2021, 20:14 (Ref:4086192) | #40 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,660
|
Quote:
Quote:
As S5000 are FIA Cat 3 cars though, it MAY apply everywhere they run and be applied to the cars' homologation, regardless of the circuit being used. We'll find out with time I guess. |
||||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
1 Dec 2021, 20:33 (Ref:4086193) | #41 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 306
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
2 Dec 2021, 16:34 (Ref:4086309) | #42 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
|
Pretty dumb move from Macrow off the start line in race 1, swerving around and ending up taking himself and others off. The cars to do look and sound great though and the support races are very entertaining, loving the look and sound of the Historics and the Transams.
|
||
|
4 Dec 2021, 14:43 (Ref:4086554) | #43 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
|
Such a shame that we haven't seen a clean uninterrupted race so far, the cars both look and sound great around Bathurst but I can't help but think that it was a somewhat wise move to limit the power output with so little run off areas.
|
||
|
5 Dec 2021, 00:29 (Ref:4086666) | #44 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,725
|
I've spent years moaning that we should have big open wheelers back at Bathurst.
This week has changed my mind. They just don't fit anymore, and any moves to change the circuit to accommodate them would be sacrilege. Doesn't mean I'm anti S5000, they are awesome, but let's race them on circuits that they can provide continuity of races rather than exhibitions of the effectiveness of gravel traps in avoiding life threatening incidents and the resulting discontinuity. Philip Island, Sandown, the Bend, SMP and some other Circuits please, and over longer race distances. |
||
__________________
Geting old is mandatory, acting old is optional. |
5 Dec 2021, 01:01 (Ref:4086668) | #45 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,660
|
Agree Oldtony - previous approach of not generally taking winged single seaters to Bathurst was not done on a whim, many knowledgeable & well-credentialed people involved.
The way the S5000s look uncomfortable, somewhat out of place & have thrown themselves off & tripped over each other with monotonous regularity shows the wisdom of the previous approach of not taking such cars to the mountain. Like you, nothing against S5000 but their time here has gone pretty much as I expected. |
||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
5 Dec 2021, 08:33 (Ref:4086704) | #46 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,257
|
I have been watching s5000 since that first weekend with barrachello etc.
I think they are a great car, look sound and are spectacular But I do wonder why they seem to have so many serious incidents resulting in red flags or safety cars and seriously broken race cars. Do they need more tyre or less power or are the drivers not up to it? Maybe Lambdon GRM etc need to sit down and analyse the cars I want to see complete long safe close racing. I really dont care if the cars are couple of seconds slower, it all looks the same on the teevee |
||
__________________
Bathurst 1977, best day of my childhood Worst thing ever to happen to Ford Aust Motorsport. |
5 Dec 2021, 08:56 (Ref:4086709) | #47 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,660
|
Quote:
Problem they've got is that the cars have to fit within an envelope to remain FIA category 3, so if they crank on more aero, they'll have to go down on engine power or tyre size or both. Ultimately they're only j-u-s-t faster than F3 cars but sound much better in the process, so maybe sacrificing some power and tyre size for more aero would make them more like a modern single seater and more along the lines of what drivers expect / need to not trip over each other so much. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
6 Dec 2021, 03:19 (Ref:4087104) | #48 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,540
|
Couple of pretty avoidable accidents at the Chase IMO. Mawson putting his nose alongside was a nothing-move, then it seemed Cameron did the old 'pretend the driver I've just passed is no longer there' as the crash was well past the apex. It was interesting that there was almost no mention of Katayama coming through the dust cloud too fast and running off the track under yellow.
|
||
|
9 Dec 2021, 04:23 (Ref:4087840) | #49 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 506
|
The power/weight ratio would be similar to supercars. If they don't produce the aero grip drivers are used to in open-wheelers, then being comparable to supercars is apt.
If last weekend was anything to go by, they'll end up changing the chase if they keep going. |
|
|
28 Feb 2022, 12:07 (Ref:4100630) | #50 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,549
|
Great to hear Ryan How is looking to join the series - was mightily impressed by his run in an Audi GT3 at Wanneroo a few years back.
A real talent, here is hoping he picks up some sponsorship. |
||
__________________
more torque than a climate change conference |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2021 Phillip Island Classic - 5th to 7th March 2021 | chavez | Historic Racing Today | 60 | 20 Mar 2021 23:43 |
Historic Grand Prix (Zandvoort): 16 July 2021 - 18 July 2021 | Duddha | Historic Racing Today | 1 | 5 Jan 2021 14:33 |
Sandown TCR and S5000 | champcarman | Australasian Touring Cars. | 35 | 13 Oct 2019 22:43 |
ARG - today a category - tomorrow the world | Tourer | Australasian Touring Cars. | 47 | 10 Oct 2019 10:43 |