[LM24] Tom Kristensen - the greatest Le Mans racer ever

[paul-collins]

"Best" is almost always judgemental. Can we not just live with "winningest?"

Congrats to Tom, there's obviously something special about him in this discipline in particular. He's shown it in other big enduros too...

[BSchneiderFan]

We can NEVER live with "winningest". Horrible word.

[jhansen]

I have to agree with Paul-Collins, "best ever" is a rather subjective thing. Especially when comparing drivers from a different era. His record speaks volumes and is enough said in my opinion.

Interesting side note. On Speed's coverage, one of the pit reporters interviewed McNish and asked which of the six Champion drivers was best at fuel consumption. McNish's reply was Frank Biela (quite ironic considering 2003). He said when you watch the data nobody is smoother than Biela.

In my opinion McNish is probably quickest of the six.

But Tommy K seems to have the whole package with no real weaknesses.

[TheNewBob]

I do recall from the RLM coverage that McNish was getting the quickest times out of the R8. But guess you need to be more than just quick...

[paul-collins]

Sorry BSF. It is horrible, isn't it?

[Dunzer]

How Tom Kristensen never made it into F1 is beyond me

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Interesting side note. On Speed's coverage, one of the pit reporters interviewed McNish and asked which of the six Champion drivers was best at fuel consumption. McNish's reply was Frank Biela (quite ironic considering 2003). He said when you watch the data nobody is smoother than Biela.

In my opinion McNish is probably quickest of the six.

But Tommy K seems to have the whole package with no real weaknesses.

That Biela is so smooth doesn't surprise me. He made the transition from touring cars (where he was brilliant) to sportscars very well, and seems to be happier there now - witness his rather fruitless return to the DTM in 2004. But I think you hit the nail on the head exactly about Kristensen. Most of the Audi Sport drivers are superb - Lehto and McNish are blindingly quick, McNish especially so - but Kristensen is quick, smooth, consistent and lucky. McNish may be quicker, Biela may be smoother, Lehto may be faster in the wet; but Kristensen is good overall.

It'll be very interesting to see who Audi employs next year.

[PascaLM]

I think that Tom Kristensen is a pilot who know how to share his own vision of driving with his co-drivers. He is the perfect endurance pilot.

[jhansen]

Quote from BSchneiderFan: "It'll be very interesting to see who Audi employs next year."

I am very interested in the answer to that as well.

[BSchneiderFan]

My guess - and it's purely that - is that Champion will retain Lehto/Werner and Biela/Pirro, and Joest will run Kristensen/Capello and McNish/Kaffer. Don't know what that would mean for Le Mans.

[Tom V]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Schumacher is better, IMO. I deal in facts, and the facts are Schumacher has won more GP's and World Championships than Senna, or indeed Anyone. Yes Senna may well have gone on to win more races and world championships than he did but none of us know if he would have for sure. So for me Schumacher is the greatest driver (at least in F1) to ever have walked the planet.



It isnt just reliablity that helped Kristensen win the races though, its his outright speed and ability, IMO there is a little more to him winning 6 Le Mans consecutivly than luck. How many Le Mans did Ickx ever win consecutivly? Im not trying to dis credit what Ickx achieved, he was a fantastic driver. Its just IMO, and others that Kristensen is better, in other people's eyes however Ickx is better.

I could argue about this for hours. You just can't compare drivers from different era's.

[TheNewBob]

Audi employees next season - Johnny Herbert's not doing anything much at the minute...

*edit* - that was a suggestion, I'm not trying to start any rumours!

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

One thing that keeps amazing me is how this otherwise great forum utterly lacks the SPOILER-warning discipline that is present at lots of other racing-related forums.

How many days do you need us to keep the result secret? Are you waiting to read it in the book ???

Let us know and we'll all help....

[Martin Haven]

Can we at least venture that he's the greatest Danish Le Mans driver of all time???

Called Tom.... just in case Super John fans dive in...

and a bloody good bloke, to boot!

[SL]

The feat of Ickx cannot be repeated, quite often he was in a lesser car but still won or came very close.

Not taking away from Tom's fine achievement but for most parts he was in the best car and with help from his team won.

Look at the circuit now and compare with the 917/952/962 era. Both are worthy but I'd rather have driven TC's win's than JI's

Simon

PS I have been at LM long enought to see both drivers in action

[jhansen]

Well that's it then, let's settle it once and for all...

Audi R8s at dawn and may the best man win!

[djb]

Originally Posted by Dunlop Corner

To understand how Tom makes a difference, you have to watch the laptimes during the races. It was not sheer bad luck that made McNish tire fail: it was a result of a flatout battle between Tom and Alan (both guys ran 3:40s which was very rare for the R8 this race), where Alan's tire failed 6kms before it was about to be changed.
Then again the battle with the Pescarolo. Lehto and Werner lost 5 seconds a lap, which was the gap Pesca had to make up. Then Tom got in the car and was about 3 seconds a lap faster than his co-drivers. Even though he was up against Boullion, who was the fastest Pesca driver, Tom kept a good gap which forced Pesca to take alot of changes, which lead to the overheating.

this are good observations, today I was talking with some co-workers about his record # of wins and why (they aren't motorsport fans really) and found it hard to readily explain to them why he has been so successful.

for me, the theory of his talents being well rounded is probably the one closest to the mark. All aspects of driving talent mixed with perhaps savy for wrangling into a team with drivers that you can work well with and gel driving-styles wise must play a part. yes, there's luck (especially when dealing with a teammates mistakes etc) but I see the greats having the combination of driving talent AND latent instincts/people talents to choose what team environment to be in and probably also influence a number of factors within the team--ultimatley creating the better conditions for "luck"--the McNish example a good one (keeping him at a equal fast pace, and being perhaps just a smidge easier on the tires, McNish's tire goes, time is lost--created luck ultimately, aiding and abetting a situation that could result in something, which it did.)

this thread is interesting as it has made me think more about the complexities of Lemans racing and how things have a dominoe effect etc etc.

[brielga]

Originally Posted by the_royksopp

This is SO huge!

It was extremely emotional for me and all the other danish friends, especially when he spoke in danish on the podium, thanking the danish fans for the support over the years, saying that he couldn't find words, so he would try with a simple 'thank you'.

The danish commentators were absolutely extatic, comparing this to the danish victory in the european championship in soccer in '92, which is genuinely regarded as the most impressive danish sports achievement ever.

I live approx. 30 km's from Hobro, where Tom K is born, and this is great! . Sorry, but it is just legendary - and i know i probably sound extremely silly .

Not silly at all, it was great and I although I could only understand the "Takk" when he was on the podium his emotions said it all. I think he deserves all the attention and comments he's getting. He simply wrote history

[krt917]

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Tom Kristensen on setting the new Le Mans mark and on his modest remarks in Autosport this week on the subject of breaking Ickx's record.

Personally, I would still have Ickx above Tom in my sportscar 'Hall of Fame'.

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Not for me he dosent, how many Le Mans did Ickx taken part in? I count 10, and won 6 although it might be more, that total 10 is just the ammount of times hes finished. Kristensen has competed in 9, and won 7, so far. Says it all for me.

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Schumacher is better, IMO. I deal in facts, and the facts are Schumacher has won more GP's and World Championships than Senna, or indeed Anyone. Yes Senna may well have gone on to win more races and world championships than he did but none of us know if he would have for sure. So for me Schumacher is the greatest driver (at least in F1) to ever have walked the planet.

Statistics are only one way of looking at a debate/subject. They can often be misleading without other information and explanation being brought in to the argument. I reckon Schuey is marginally a greater driver than Senna, but not because he has won more races or titles.

For me, the fact that the period in which Ickx raced in saw cars that were less reliable is important. You had to nurse them and be able to push hard when required. It's true that it's now harder for a driver to make a difference and that Kristensen has still managed to win seven times, but Ickx often did make the difference and showed that he could look after a car when required. I also think that, relative to their peers, Ickx was a faster driver than Kristensen is.

Finally, I think Ickx showed his abilites beyond Sportscars more than Tom has. TK probably should have got to F1, but I wonder whether he would have been in the top 3 or 4, as Ickx was in the late sixties and early seventies. At one time, Ickx was probably one of the top 4 or 5 drivers in the world, and got to prove it in F1 and sportscars. I wouldn't rate Kristensen quite that highly, though of course it's not his fault he hasn't been given an F1 chance.

Originally Posted by luke

Anyway well done to Tom, he's set a record that none will probably beat.

I wouldn't say that. I remember thinking Prost's 51 GP wins wouldn't be broken for a long time.... It's amazing how 'unbeatable' records get broken!

[cybersdorf]

Without getting into the statistics debate which IMHO is silly, I'd just like to say that if someone had told me ten years ago Kristensen would be the all-time "winningest" driver at Le Mans, I wouldn't have believed it. I would have gone for one of the locals, such as Bouchut (he seemed to be on his way there) or Helary; or Lehto; or even Eddie Irvine.
Still, there he is, and I'd say it is justly deserved. While it is true that he has been in the best car for the last few years, even the best car needs to be driven. So, well done Tom K.

Originally Posted by the_royksopp

The danish commentators were absolutely extatic, comparing this to the danish victory in the european championship in soccer in '92, which is genuinely regarded as the most impressive danish sports achievement ever.

If there is any chance of a little audio file finding its way into the internet, I for one would like to hear that.

[Tom V]

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

Without getting into the statistics debate which IMHO is silly, I'd just like to say that if someone had told me ten years ago Kristensen would be the all-time "winningest" driver at Le Mans, I wouldn't have believed it. I would have gone for one of the locals, such as Bouchut (he seemed to be on his way there) or Helary; or Lehto; or even Eddie Irvine.
Still, there he is, and I'd say it is justly deserved. While it is true that he has been in the best car for the last few years, even the best car needs to be driven. So, well done Tom K.

Actually I always thought Yannick Dalmas would do it. He also collected a number of wins very rapidly.

[Fab]

Originally Posted by Tom V

Actually I always thought Yannick Dalmas would do it. He also collected a number of wins very rapidly.

Very consistent and reliable pilot, but not as fast as Tom K, IMHO...

[TheNewBob]

Dalmas another person who never had it good in F1, too... Mind you, can say that for quite a number of people - in some ways Lehto, also Lammers, Boullion, Lamy, Comas etc... - shows you don't just need F1 to prove yourself to be a great driver!

[BSchneiderFan]

And the mystery of what Dalmas is doing now continues...

[Liz]

Originally Posted by JAG

Except that TK has always competed against equally strong team mates.

And TK has never cheated, demanded his teammates move over and hand him a victory, tried to ram anybody off the track, or tried to get almost all the other teams disqualified from one race (Monaco, in TGF's case) either in person or through surrogates.

TK has won fair and square by exercising his undeniable talent and working WITH his teammates. He is an example not only to all racers but to all gentlemen.