[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 19 of 22

[bathurst77]

Lewis interviewed after Q3 "I have 5 place penalty so Max will start on pole on saturday" Even he doesnt understand the qualifying - sprint - grid system.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

One of my favourite tracks.

One of mine too. The cars look fast here, they whip past track features, terrain changes, the drivers always visibly erestling thd csrs a bit.

[E.B]

Max is also on the naughty step and has been summoned over a "breach of parc ferme regs".... A summons, published at 22:20 local time, called for Verstappen and a representative from Red Bull to attend a hearing at 09:30 on Saturday.
Presumably regarding his post qualy inspection and touching of his and Lewis's rear wing.

“Inside the parc ferme, only the officials assigned may enter,” Article 2.5.1 of the FIA International Sporting Code states.

“No operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable regulations.”

So could we end up with Bottas on pole (for the sprint race)?

[Sodemo]

Wow, this gets better and better. Legal teams into a frenzy please!

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by bella

unless the scrutes can prove to the same degree of accuracy that the wing was non compliant before it was tampered with by max then it’s not going to fly.

"Tampered"?, he bareley touched it

or do you think Max can bend carbon fiber with a slight touch?

[EastonNeston]

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

If they do the right thing they will see he barely touched it

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

And an Event DQ for Hamiltion for a technically non-compliant car?

I don't think so...

[steve nielsen]

It happened before and Vettel did not get a penalty

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IWwQNS0MIUo

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

If they do the right thing they will check if Lewis' his rear wing is compliant with the rules and give a penalty accordingly. The people checking will be quite able to determine weather or not any of Max's touching will have any influence the working of Hamilton's car (realistically, none of course).

About Max, well it seems touching the competitors car does seem to breach the regulation: “no operation, checking, tuning or repair is allowed unless authorised by the same officials or by the applicable regulations”.

Although one then could argue, that based on the same interpretation a driver is not allowed to check his own car either.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

"Tampered"?, he bareley touched it

or do you think Max can bend carbon fiber with a slight touch?

How many kgs of downforce does the rear wing generate and cope with in normal use? More than Max's pinky can exert I suspect.

[EastonNeston]

There is clear, indisputable, video evidence showing that Verstappen made contact with Hamiltons car, a clear breach of the regulations.
Therefore the stewards should issue the appropriate penalty.

This isn't the first time Verstappen has broken regulations about contact. Remember when he assaulted Ocon in the podium area after a race a few years ago.

[E.B]

Hyopothetically speaking ogf course, but should Lewis's car be found non compliant I imagine the only avenue would be to DSQ him from qualifying, presumably sending him to the rear of grid for the Sprint race rather than the main race.
Of course he still has an engine penalty to deal with which I guess is applied to his Sprint race finishing (ie main race pre-penalty grid) position.
Asking for a friend....

[crmalcolm]

It's all a bit strange - and stupid of Max to do what he did.
Yes - I know others have done similar in the past, but that still does not excuse it.

So we now have a situation where a car has failed scrutineering, and evidence of a rival driver touching and closely examining that part of the car.

At the very least - if you think something is wrong on another car then leave well alone. To look closely is one thing - to touch it opens yourself up for accusation of tampering.

Is it probable that Max's actions caused the failure? The likelihood would seem slim. But how many of us actually know exactly how the DRS element is constructed, and whether a 'tampering' is possible? If there is even the remotest chance that Max's actions changed the DRS element in the tiniest of ways, then Mercedes will use that in their defence.

Max - why open up that chance for defence in the first place?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

There is clear, indisputable, video evidence showing that Verstappen made contact with Hamiltons car, a clear breach of the regulations.
Therefore the stewards should issue the appropriate penalty.

This isn't the first time Verstappen has broken regulations about contact. Remember when he assaulted Ocon in the podium area after a race a few years ago.

Now you're just trolling

[S griffin]

Seems after a great quali, we end up with more controversy we could do without. At least we shouldn't have too much longer to wait to see if Lewis keeps his pole. But it's all the more reason to get rid of DRS

And Max being investigated for looking at Lewis' car, is there anything you are allowed to do in F1 anymore?

[EastonNeston]

It wasn't just looking though, which is allowed.

He touched, which is a clear and absolute breach of the regulations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvMHq3t4YYY

It does seem that Verstappen has a problem keeping his hands to himself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1dH_ik8EU

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

It wasn't just looking though, which is allowed.

He touched, which is a clear and absolute breach of the regulations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvMHq3t4YYY

It does seem that Verstappen has a problem keeping his hands to himself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1dH_ik8EU

2 posts both trying to claim a ridiculous false equivalence.As someone said 2 posts up -trolling.

[steve_r]

I am not even sure what there is to investigate with Verstappen. Just tell him to not do it again, and move on. Instead it seems to be an issue so complex that the stewards needed to go away and sleep on it before reconvening again in the morning to review it even further.

Mercedes have seemingly shot themselves in the foot, and my wish for a close last race title decider looks less likely than ever.

[bathurst77]

max infringement. he broke the rule, but not in a way that helped his, or hindered anyone elses race. He should get penalty points on his superlicence and a dressing down.

However if hamiltons car is found to be not legal in quali, especially if the drs error can be shown to give advantage, then he competed in a car that wasnt eligible within f1 specs. I cant see how they can let his result stand if he achieved it in a car that was not a valid Formula 1 car.

[Greem]

Watched qualifying last night, very impressed with Hamilton's time.

Woke up this morning and caught up just now with all the intrigue - according to Mark Hughes, it appears Verstappen also had a DRS problem which was why he was checking his and the other rear wings.

Gunpowder, treason and plot!

I guess we'll know the outcome of both investigations in a couple of hours. Intriguing.

[steve nielsen]

Aperantly Adrian Newey found out about Mercedes rear wing from analysing footage, Red Bull says the Mercedes wing starts bending at speeds over 260 KPH, so Mercedes supposedly doing exactly what the accused Red Bull of doing earlier in the season.

But that's another issue from the DRS issue and maybe that's why it's taking as long to come to a verdict

[brands]

Should be a fairly simple rulings.
If Lewis' car failed the 85mm test, regardless of set up error or manufacture defect, he will lose all his qually times and start at the back of the sprint. Only possible defence might be if the DRS mechanism some how broke during running.
Max should get a reprimand and told to keep his hands to himself.
Shame for the race but neither are opinion calls.

[bathurst77]

Im normally quick to stick the boot into Mazepin, but seeing him crying after quali, I did feel for him
But only for a minute or two im all better now

I think we saw a rich playboy for whom life has been easy and doors always open suddenly hitting a barrier....himself.... a realization that somethings arent just there for the asking

[gert]

I think if they DQ Hamilton they will have little other choice but to DQ Verstappen as well.

There's a history of drivers getting DQ'ed when they touched their car after a race (espcally in lower formulae like GP2 or F3000), so I can't see how touching another competitor's car can only be a reprimand?

Especially considering he touched the one part of the car that's under scrutiny.
It could have been different if it was the front wing that was being investigated.